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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1341 - 2014-08-25 20:30:46 UTC
Enthropic wrote:
Why are you guys even feeding the goon troll?


Because most here are used to a much better quality of troll. to the point its difficult to recognise a standard troll :)

So Much Space
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1342 - 2014-08-25 20:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Syndiaan wrote:

There is already risk for rolling wormholes which has been stated numerous times. All this is going to do is slow down rage rolling, it isn't even going to be a risk because even if someone instantly spots the new sig, which usually doesn't happen, especially when the change that the new sig wont even show up until someone jumps the hole which gives the fleet time to gather on the new hole and be in position. Even if they do instantly spot the new sig, happen to already have their probes out, scan the hole, warp to it, also happen to have a gank fleet already setup and ready to warp to the scanner when he lands, its already going to be too late.


Small entities aside the risk factor isn't really a factor and a tangent really as to the issues here - most of the people posting in this thread belong to entities that are large enough to defend capitals against most of the threats they would likely to encounter other than each other, largely not afraid to fight each other and big enough to do things like fund corp/alliance capitals for hole closing, etc. and/or even have disposable characters for just that.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1343 - 2014-08-25 20:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How many posts now? Well if you want a clear concise précis, read Corbexx post, He nails it well.

corbexx's post gives his opinion on how the change will affect the game

the details for which I ask are to prove my supposed ignorance of wormhole space game mechanics, thus making or breaking my authority at which to speak on this topic

note that my alliance does not serve to prove or disprove said authority

please stay on target



You have no authority. You are simply a player expressing opinions on an area of space you have no reason to be concerned with.
Your only input is whether you get caps away from nullsec holes so you can hotdrop them.

It is not my role to educate you, you have a basic grasp of the concepts, but as you are not aware of the linking structures and effects across the whole of space, you have no concept as to how this affects the overall environment for players who DO live there.
I have no desire to separate, the foolish from the sensible comments, I do not have that much patience.

You have NO right to demand more.

When you move in to the deserted systems, then you may learn, the hard way. And people will be pleased to educate you in the complexities of survival. Please bring officer fit caps, you know how much they are appreciated and admired.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1344 - 2014-08-25 20:34:14 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How many posts now? Well if you want a clear concise précis, read Corbexx post, He nails it well.

corbexx's post gives his opinion on how the change will affect the game

the details for which I ask are to prove my supposed ignorance of wormhole space game mechanics, thus making or breaking my authority at which to speak on this topic

note that my alliance does not serve to prove or disprove said authority

please stay on target



You have no authority. You are simply a player expressing opinions on an area of space you have no reason to be concerned with.
Your only input is whether you get caps away from nullsec holes so you can hotdrop them.

It is not my role to educate you, you have a basic grasp of the concepts, but as you are not aware of the linking structures and effects across the whole of space, you have no concept as to how this affects the overall environment for players who DO live there.
I have no desire to separate, the foolish from the sensible comments, I do not have that much patience.

You have NO right to demand more.

translation: there is actually nothing other than a strained attempt to leverage my membership in my alliance into a position of non-authority on the matter

please stow this tired argument from authority
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1345 - 2014-08-25 20:36:53 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
Do you just have a personal hatred for wormhole people or something? So your idea of a good change is to make finding content in a game take longer and more frustrating?

it's to give it the potential for being interdicted


There is already risk for rolling wormholes which has been stated numerous times. All this is going to do is slow down rage rolling, it isn't even going to be a risk because even if someone instantly spots the new sig, which usually doesn't happen, especially when the change that the new sig wont even show up until someone jumps the hole which gives the fleet time to gather on the new hole and be in position. Even if they do instantly spot the new sig, happen to already have their probes out, scan the hole, warp to it, also happen to have a gank fleet already setup and ready to warp to the scanner when he lands, its already going to be too late.

except there isn't any risk on TQ today -- you said so in your own words two pages back:

Syndiaan wrote:
Granted yeah if you are rage rolling that is not an issue because you will have eyes on the hole the whole time.



I think you are overestimating how often rage rolling goes on.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1346 - 2014-08-25 20:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How many posts now? Well if you want a clear concise précis, read Corbexx post, He nails it well.

corbexx's post gives his opinion on how the change will affect the game

the details for which I ask are to prove my supposed ignorance of wormhole space game mechanics, thus making or breaking my authority at which to speak on this topic

note that my alliance does not serve to prove or disprove said authority

please stay on target



You have no authority. You are simply a player expressing opinions on an area of space you have no reason to be concerned with.
Your only input is whether you get caps away from nullsec holes so you can hotdrop them.

It is not my role to educate you, you have a basic grasp of the concepts, but as you are not aware of the linking structures and effects across the whole of space, you have no concept as to how this affects the overall environment for players who DO live there.
I have no desire to separate, the foolish from the sensible comments, I do not have that much patience.

You have NO right to demand more.

translation: there is actually nothing other than a strained attempt to leverage my membership in my alliance into a position of non-authority on the matter

please stow this tired argument from authority



Bye troll. Seen much better.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1347 - 2014-08-25 20:37:55 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How many posts now? Well if you want a clear concise précis, read Corbexx post, He nails it well.

corbexx's post gives his opinion on how the change will affect the game

the details for which I ask are to prove my supposed ignorance of wormhole space game mechanics, thus making or breaking my authority at which to speak on this topic

note that my alliance does not serve to prove or disprove said authority

please stay on target



You have no authority. You are simply a player expressing opinions on an area of space you have no reason to be concerned with.
Your only input is whether you get caps away from nullsec holes so you can hotdrop them.

It is not my role to educate you, you have a basic grasp of the concepts, but as you are not aware of the linking structures and effects across the whole of space, you have no concept as to how this affects the overall environment for players who DO live there.
I have no desire to separate, the foolish from the sensible comments, I do not have that much patience.

You have NO right to demand more.

translation: there is actually nothing other than a strained attempt to leverage my membership in my alliance into a position of non-authority on the matter

please stow this tired argument from authority


Like I said before, are you gonna take car advice from the dude down the street who knows nothing on the subject (goons) or are you gonna go to the professionals (Literally any of the wh corps in this thread)?

At the same time, you're attempting to leverage your alliance membership into a position of someone who should be listened to, as opposed to being the tired kid at the mall who wants to go home right NOW and wants candy that he saw another kid get. Please leave wormhole space to wormhole residents, and stop talking out of your ass. It's bad enough that CCP Fozzie is currently talking out of his ass, let's not try to take his job away.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1348 - 2014-08-25 20:38:43 UTC
Syndiaan wrote:
I think you are overestimating how often rage rolling goes on.

By all accounts in this thread it is the only thing that wormholers have TO do at all -- why else post with such apoplexy on the topic
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1349 - 2014-08-25 20:39:20 UTC
corbexx wrote:
right haven't posted in here in a while, but since i'm ill and in a bit of a mood I thought what better time than now to post.

So first this is going to effect ******* everyone. Second one of the key features I feel the devs are missing is that doing nothing is a choice.

ooh it will make it risker for people they have to roll if they want to farm so thats content.

Wrong. If its a big group on the other side they will exercise there choice to do nothing and just log. This happens already, we connect to a farming group who is likely to run sites, we wait they log on scan, see a wh jump in, ooh its noho. No pve today log off guys. If it happens now it will sure as hell happen after.

If your a big group who likes to rage roll it propably wont affect you as much except for a few things.

Its going to take longer, you can mitigate this a bit with a nano carrier but this still has issues. What if you like to roll the static of your static so you can fight other people. We often roll for a c6 -c5 so we can roll the c5 to fight different people for this you need a combat carrier so rolling that will take even longer.

Now on to "it will take longer" This change is ment to make it riskier. But you know what. for farming it will be safer. Yeah god damn safer, for escalation you only have so many sites so you are only in space for so long and at risk for so long. With it taking longer to roll you have less chances of catching people doing sites.

Ohh you can roll with bs's etc yeah ok. so lets look at this.The max distance for bs is 8.8km so while alot quicker than a carrier will still be longer than what it is now. You will also need twice the amount of people to do this so will be harder for the smaller groups. And last but not least with out a god damn ******* orca you risk needing to use a closing hic which will add even more ******* time on to rolling. So keep that in mind before saying ooh bs is quicker. If you want to do it with a orca then your only slightly faster than using a cap. and you have the down side of needing twice the people.

Your moving from a area of known stuff to luck. While i know some people want there to be more unknown stuff (which I don't mind) moving to any luck based system is terrible.Having ships spawn in random directions is bad. will my ships bein refit or wont they. Now if and i say you had control over this I wouldnt mind so much for example. If the direction you were in when jumping through the wormhole effected where you came out I wouldnt mined. Along with the speed you were doing (maybe have it based on a % of your max speed) affected how far from the wormhole you appeared. This woudl be fine it would give you options and choices to use to tactical advantage. As it is its random bs luck.

If it affects the bigger groups you can bet your arse its going to affect the smaller groups way more, and you'd be right. rolling c2 to c4 will be even more of a pain. you could do it a bit safer with battleships and not orcas but its still going to add alot more time on to you. smaller groups also don't have the luxury of having a nice big support fleet, to protect them.

You combine this with the fact that income in the lower class wh's isn't that good and you can make more in hisec doing incursions.

TLDR Its still a pants on head idea and terrible.

I know a fair few groups who have moved out or moving and I'll be straight up and honest this change worries the **** out of me.


+1
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1350 - 2014-08-25 20:41:59 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Like I said before, are you gonna take car advice from the dude down the street who knows nothing on the subject (goons) or are you gonna go to the professionals (Literally any of the wh corps in this thread)?

At the same time, you're attempting to leverage your alliance membership into a position of someone who should be listened to, as opposed to being the tired kid at the mall who wants to go home right NOW and wants candy that he saw another kid get. Please leave wormhole space to wormhole residents, and stop talking out of your ass. It's bad enough that CCP Fozzie is currently talking out of his ass, let's not try to take his job away.

your car analogy, which appreciated for being a car analogy (best analogies) is not particularly relevant to a video game like eve that rewards secrecy as much as it does -- for all you know, I could have a character in your corp right now, living in w-space

mechanics tend to self-identify as mechanics and don't have secret lives as florists or something similarly contrived

and who says I am leveraging my alliance membership into anything, i am not special and neither is my alliance, I am just one person talking about a video game
Syndiaan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1351 - 2014-08-25 20:43:19 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
I think you are overestimating how often rage rolling goes on.

By all accounts in this thread it is the only thing that wormholers have TO do at all -- why else post with such apoplexy on the topic


That is a perfect example of why you should not be contributing to the discussion of this change if that is how you see wormholes.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1352 - 2014-08-25 20:44:54 UTC
Syndiaan wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Syndiaan wrote:
I think you are overestimating how often rage rolling goes on.

By all accounts in this thread it is the only thing that wormholers have TO do at all -- why else post with such apoplexy on the topic


That is a perfect example of why you should not be contributing to the discussion of this change if that is how you see wormholes.

it's not how I see wormholes -- it's how self-identifying wormhole dwellers are representing themselves in the thread
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1353 - 2014-08-25 20:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Promiscuous Female
here is debate 101 -- when arguing for something, you have to establish authority with facts and evidence

you can't put on a shirt with "AUTHORITY ABOUT [TOPIC]" scrawled on it and then deride your opponent for not wearing the same shirt
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1354 - 2014-08-25 20:47:44 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Like I said before, are you gonna take car advice from the dude down the street who knows nothing on the subject (goons) or are you gonna go to the professionals (Literally any of the wh corps in this thread)?

At the same time, you're attempting to leverage your alliance membership into a position of someone who should be listened to, as opposed to being the tired kid at the mall who wants to go home right NOW and wants candy that he saw another kid get. Please leave wormhole space to wormhole residents, and stop talking out of your ass. It's bad enough that CCP Fozzie is currently talking out of his ass, let's not try to take his job away.

your car analogy, which appreciated for being a car analogy (best analogies) is not particularly relevant to a video game like eve that rewards secrecy as much as it does -- for all you know, I could have a character in your corp right now, living in w-space

mechanics tend to self-identify as mechanics and don't have secret lives as florists or something similarly contrived

and who says I am leveraging my alliance membership into anything, i am not special and neither is my alliance, I am just one person talking about a video game


I can just about guarantee that you don't have an alt in my corp since it's just me in here.

I don't know what you're trying to do with your mechanics thing, but please do enlighten me as to your reasoning for going to the dude who knows nothing instead of the people who know what they're doing.

If I must use a simpler analogy for your mind, would you ask a 5 day old character who just joined EVE about supercapital tactics and titan fits? No, because they don't know what you're talking about. And neither does 99% of the Goonswarm posts in this thread.
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#1355 - 2014-08-25 20:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jezza McWaffle
+1 to Corbex's post. Its pretty good reason why its a **** idea and why it will remain a **** idea. Rage rolling wont be affected risk wise since you can still role faster than they can catch you. It will however make rage rolling more of a pain in the ass then it is already and CCP obviously do not understand why we rage roll in the first place, and a hint btw it is not to do with ganking people.

This change WILL kill off a part of WH space, that is a fact and if you don't understand why then you shouldn't be in this thread in the first place.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1356 - 2014-08-25 20:50:45 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:

I don't know what you're trying to do with your mechanics thing, but please do enlighten me as to your reasoning for going to the dude who knows nothing instead of the people who know what they're doing.

If I must use a simpler analogy for your mind, would you ask a 5 day old character who just joined EVE about supercapital tactics and titan fits? No, because they don't know what you're talking about. And neither does 99% of the Goonswarm posts in this thread.

the point is that you can't establish who has the authority from their alliance tag because that is not how authority works

we don't establish that mechanics have authority because they walk down the street wearing a sandwich board with "MECHANIC" drawn on the front in crayon, we establish it with facts and evidence

the "I have an alt in your corp" nonsense is to illustrate that allegiances in this game are not as cut and dried as your alliance tag

and, again, if I'm so out of touch with how wormhole space works, feel free to drop some hard facts on me proving my ignorance
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1357 - 2014-08-25 20:54:48 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:

I don't know what you're trying to do with your mechanics thing, but please do enlighten me as to your reasoning for going to the dude who knows nothing instead of the people who know what they're doing.

If I must use a simpler analogy for your mind, would you ask a 5 day old character who just joined EVE about supercapital tactics and titan fits? No, because they don't know what you're talking about. And neither does 99% of the Goonswarm posts in this thread.

the point is that you can't establish who has the authority from their alliance tag because that is not how authority works

we don't establish that mechanics have authority because they walk down the street wearing a sandwich board with "MECHANIC" drawn on the front in crayon, we establish it with facts and evidence

the "I have an alt in your corp" nonsense is to illustrate that allegiances in this game are not as cut and dried as your alliance tag

and, again, if I'm so out of touch with how wormhole space works, feel free to drop some hard facts on me proving my ignorance


But but I like my sandwich board with member of Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork on it :|
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1358 - 2014-08-25 20:54:56 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Enthropic wrote:
Why are you guys even feeding the goon troll?


Because most here are used to a much better quality of troll. to the point its difficult to recognise a standard troll :)

We should pay them in kind when the sov changes threads are up.
Mutual Assured Destruction AKA MAD.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1359 - 2014-08-25 20:56:53 UTC
Rroff wrote:

But but I like my sandwich board with member of Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork on it :|

same except goonswarm federation
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1360 - 2014-08-25 20:57:32 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Enthropic wrote:
Why are you guys even feeding the goon troll?


Because most here are used to a much better quality of troll. to the point its difficult to recognise a standard troll :)

We should pay them in kind when the sov changes threads are up.
Mutual Assured Destruction AKA MAD.


Can you imagine all the "but your not a member of a nullsec corp/alliance so what would you know" put downs? lol