Wormholes

Yo Fozzie, I think my opinion on this change sort of boils down to the notion that you can't really, at the end of the day, *force* people to PvP and you can't *force* people to take risks disproportionate to the reward received from taking the risk.

This change sort of reflects a basic misunderstanding of where PvP comes from. PvP comes from calculation of risk vs. reward or chance of winning vs. chance of loss. If you make hugely expensive capital ships land 30-40+ km off a wormhole, out of rep range of other caps, out of refitting range of carriers etc., then I got news for you -- nobody's going to jump caps through wormholes anymore. Its a done deal. Caps will be home-turf defense only. And nobody is gonna jump caps to fight defensive caps on someone else's home turf on the hole. No more cap fights means wormholes become less interesting = more pilots leaving w-space.

The other thing is, rolling holes is just part of the wormhole culture. I'm not really seeing why its so crucial to make rolling holes harder or more dangerous. Its already plenty dangerous for the majority of players. I don't see the point of making changes that affect everyone so that the elite groups have a harder game. Those sorts of decisions make the game harder for them but impossible for us smaller-time folk. Sometimes rolling the hole can literally save your wormhole existence. Its one of the few "nuclear" options available to smaller corps that can't take a fight from a bigger entity. It can stop an eviction. Its what keeps a lot of us in w-space because it helps the risk/reward equation balance out.

Same with rage rolling, its just part of wormhole culture. You almost have to do it to find content now because there's too many wormholes and not enough residents. Unless of course you're willing to settle for dicking around with null/low dwellers. But anyhow I'm not seeing the point of trying to do away with it. If you want less rage rolling then the best way to get less of it is to get more wormhole residents.

This change in particular (e.g. spawning distance from the hole vs. mass) needs to be reconsidered. I feel that efforts to make wormholes more dangerous need to be balanced with increased rewards, and I'm not seeing much in the way of increased rewards in this latest set of changes TBH. And this gets straight to the heart of getting more pilots into w-space. Right now lower class wormholes need some help on the income side of the equation. Non-C5/C6 non-escalation sites just can't compete with highsec incursions / pirate faction missioning / blue donut plexing / etc and you can run these all day long and have the security of local. You won't lose your ship & implants unless you're stupid and afk. So whats the point of running sites in w-space unless you're doing cap escalations? There is none. Go skill for the easier isk in k-space. The income isn't to be found and you'll just lose your ship/pod and end up back in k-space anyway. And people wonder why they go from system to system in w-space and see nothing but zombie towers and epithals. Lets get to the incentives to actually fully utilize lower class wormholes first before fooling around with stuff that already works fine.

Don't really care how it gets done, whether you nerf the easier k-space isk or buff ordinary w-space site incomes but it needs to be done so lets stop dodging the issue and address it.

The real answer lies in removing incursions to bolster the population of null/WH space. Nullsec is just bots now, and WH population is...meh...hard to find fights.

If you indeed do this then please remove local from null sec. k thx bye.

I read the first 20 pages, then TL;DR

What is the reason for this mass based spawn distance idea.

Finding content seems to be a major concern and that is why us who live in wormholes roll them and scout the chains.
Is wspace so empty that content needs to be ragerolled, if it is, why.
Why are you trying to create content by making rolling more dangerous.

How about giving us a dating module, anchor it, fuel it and online it so it draws more K162 holes in to that system?

Oh so you're one of those that expects complete safety when farming to buy your PvP ships, and then you use them to go gank others isk farming in much less protected areas. Even worse then a bear. Guess you want complete safety roaming in your pvp ships too?

You need to hone your troll skillz dude. I can buy you the skill book for that.

I can't tell you how many times I've been reported in wh region intel channels, HK can barely go anywhere without getting reported and then all the bears POS up, I mean sometimes I don't even get into scanning because I was reported 5 jumps away from a target I didn't know existed.

Of course it's also customary and honorable to speak in local and announce your presence so other wh pilots have a chance to save themselves.

It is a big deal in pvp situations, if this gets added, offensive use of caps will be no more(unless in evictions).

LOL I cant believe this is still going.... I'll say it again... This change WILL promote PVP, yes we will loose many of the farming alt groups but I expect MORE pvpers to move in as this environment will be fun for us plus we can still earn isk to fund new ships. I still don't get the really problem here..................

I mean Hard Knocks of all groups should LOVE this change as they are one of the biggest wormhole PVP groups in the game.

Here's an example of our thinking we had a connection in our chain to a C5 group just yesterday. We baited a fight. They brought a huge force. But instead of fighting us they rolled their hole? Why the hell? They outnumbered us 2 to 1. They rolled it with an Orca and a number of battleships. The new changes will FORCE them to protect their assets and generate a fight. Which I believe IS CCPs intention. If they dont like the change, I say let these carebears leave wormhole space and do incursions... They would make heaps more isk... And have 'virtually' NO RISK!

That's not true, you can get ganked doing incursions and have to put some pretty expensive ships on the line. The wormhole bears literally have no other place as safe to go to, well maybe under Martinis skirt, hence all the tears.