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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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God Arthie
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#2001 - 2014-09-29 12:35:06 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
Rolling the hole takes my corporation probably 30 seconds longer than it did post patch, and we are STILL rolling. We've not seen any more risk now than before.

We adapted.


We also adapted, and lost more then 5 players (some with alts), few of the people who stayed are also considering to leave because it takes too much time to prepare for something in a small corp.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2002 - 2014-09-29 14:15:09 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
Rolling the hole takes my corporation probably 30 seconds longer than it did post patch, and we are STILL rolling. We've not seen any more risk now than before.

We adapted.


We adapted as well. Anybody who did not leave WH Space so far adapted. You do not see more risk because you are big enough.

The questions I would raise to you specifically: Do you see more Content because of this mass change? Does this Change did anything positive for your corp / playstyle?
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2003 - 2014-09-30 02:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pritovsky Pootis
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
Mithandra wrote:
Rolling the hole takes my corporation probably 30 seconds longer than it did post patch, and we are STILL rolling. We've not seen any more risk now than before.

We adapted.


We adapted as well. Anybody who did not leave WH Space so far adapted. You do not see more risk because you are big enough.

The questions I would raise to you specifically: Do you see more Content because of this mass change? Does this Change did anything positive for your corp / playstyle?


The point is not that the patch made rolling holes so impossibly unsafe that nobody does it anymore, its that it takes longer and is unsafe for smaller corporations to do in a reasonable amount of time in the face of an opposing force. The resulting increased connectivity of un-collapsable wormholes (combined with the stupid frigate WH's) as a result has simply made many corps leave WH space or go AFK/play other games while waiting for holes to collapse rather than potentially stay online to fight or roll said wormholes.

I'd also like to ask: how long do your chains go before you find "content?" I'm willing to bet its a hell of a lot further than before the patch.
Gunner GzR
Timber Wolves
#2004 - 2014-09-30 12:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gunner GzR
Quote:
The point is not that the patch made rolling holes so impossibly unsafe that nobody does it anymore, its that it takes longer and is unsafe for smaller corporations to do in a reasonable amount of time in the face of an opposing force. The resulting increased connectivity of un-collapsable wormholes (combined with the stupid frigate WH's) as a result has simply made many corps leave WH space or go AFK/play other games while waiting for holes to collapse rather than potentially stay online to fight or roll said wormholes.

I'd also like to ask: how long do your chains go before you find "content?" I'm willing to bet its a hell of a lot further than before the patch.


Here in lies the issue for our corp.No one wants to scan all day chains of endless mty whs looking for content. i like to scan but i get tired of the endless chains..

We need more content. They gave w space the stick now we need a carrot.

As stated by myself and others. If your not going to reverse your changes give us new content

. IE; New sleepers, new sights, Faction sleeper fittings. Something to drive players into w space to look for said items..

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2005 - 2014-09-30 17:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Gunner GzR wrote:
Quote:
The point is not that the patch made rolling holes so impossibly unsafe that nobody does it anymore, its that it takes longer and is unsafe for smaller corporations to do in a reasonable amount of time in the face of an opposing force. The resulting increased connectivity of un-collapsable wormholes (combined with the stupid frigate WH's) as a result has simply made many corps leave WH space or go AFK/play other games while waiting for holes to collapse rather than potentially stay online to fight or roll said wormholes.

I'd also like to ask: how long do your chains go before you find "content?" I'm willing to bet its a hell of a lot further than before the patch.


Here in lies the issue for our corp.No one wants to scan all day chains of endless mty whs looking for content. i like to scan but i get tired of the endless chains..

We need more content. They gave w space the stick now we need a carrot.

As stated by myself and others. If your not going to reverse your changes give us new content

. IE; New sleepers, new sights, Faction sleeper fittings. Something to drive players into w space to look for said items..

Yes, this sums things up really well, Hyperion no carrot for you! and you are getting the stick whatever you say.
I really do not understand why CCP can be so self destructive sometimes, I know they mean well, they just seem to lack any understanding of the concept of player motivation.

We play this game because we like it, and we live in Wormhole space because somehow it suits our temperament, but no one planned for it to be so empty, is it because we now can scan down long chains and see the reality now, or has it been emptying for a while without us realising?

New content is now no longer desireable, it is essential, and quickly, possibly new frigate wormhole space, and new challenges to go with the new frigate holes, mayby new T4 ships that gain extra capabilities activated when operated in wormhole space? But balanced against other ships in KSpace?

Either way the rebalancing of C1-c4 space is essential as one cannot subsidise losses by farming KS forever, otherwise one may as just live there.

There is time to prevent Wormhole space becoming a desert, but that time is limited.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2006 - 2014-10-01 00:10:06 UTC
Thanks for the likes and reposts. The reason I made that post is that wormholes have always been something in EVE that I've enjoyed. I haven't lived in a wormhole since the first year they were out, and haven't played EVE much since then either. But I come back about once a year, for at least a few months, and try to find a way to have fun in the game with the little quality time I have for it.

Back in February, when I resubbed for the monument, I had this great idea of trying to go into a wormhole solo. I don't get much playtime that isn't easily interrupted, and going in solo, at least I wouldn't get anybody else killed... So one night I got drunk and flew to Oursulaert and bought an Orca. A week later I determined that I couldn't pull it off, so I sold the Orca, and when my month was up I ended my sub.

About a month ago I was itching to play again so I resubbed. This time I got drunk and went to Jita and bought an Orca and a POS.

Anyway the point is that I see the changes as a solo pilot, with only one account, allowing for at most 3 alts and none simultaneously. So risk management is my primary concern. Maybe what I'm trying to do shouldn't be possible, I don't know. I see it as a challenge and that could be fun... if the risk isn't entirely against me.

To be clear, when I speak of risk I mean specifically the risk of getting ganked while trying to do something something productive, with little chance to prevent it. Whether it's to fund PvP or just for the ISK, those who weren't already loaded when they came in need to earn money. People who want to PvP will PvP, people should still get ganked when doing productive things, but too much of that and people burn out.

When I was drunk in Jita I bought an Ore Compressor, because "hey cool an ore compressor" but then I found out that ore sites are anoms now. So I still have to spam the scan button if I want to mine, but there's less chance it will matter. It's basically me against the lock delay from cloaking, or if they decloak on warp in it's just splat time. I mean at least before I had some kind of chance, watching for probes. I know that's not the point of this thread or Hyperion but it's a major risk factor for me.

The thing is the anom change might not have been as bad without the increase in connections from Hyperion. I'm not going to be rolling holes, but I'm glad people can, as I'm sure some would roll away. I want to make ISK some other way than L4's, wormholes provide that option, or at least I'm willing to risk 2b ISK worth of my space crap to see if they do. That's pretty much all I have except for my L4 mission ships and modules. Hyperion has me on the fence about the whole thing. I'll probably still try, but if I'm losing ventures and drakes left and right it's hard to see how it would be worth it. If I can cover POS fuel, losses, and still make enough to buy PvP ships then it could end up being a fun adventure.

In the end I'm not against joining a wormhole corp to lower the risk, but being a full-time worker, parent, and husband really limits what I can contribute. I'm not saying the game should be made easy enough for me to solo, I just liked how things were setup before, and had worked for a very long time, as far as wormholes go. Plus I love the masochistic relationship between convincing yourself you'll be fine scanning lots of stuff down everyday, and being stuck in a WH whining about scanning stuff down all day. It's like the hot sauce of EVE, the repetition, it burns, but we love it.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Scrubnbubble
If we die it's lag
#2007 - 2014-10-01 04:56:02 UTC
Oceanus is out, here's an update for everyone.

Worm holes look cooler.
Massed Based Spawn distances still suck.
I now live in a pink worm hole.

That is all.
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#2008 - 2014-10-01 08:07:32 UTC
Niskin wrote:
Thanks for the likes and reposts. The reason I made that post is that wormholes have always been something in EVE that I've enjoyed. I haven't lived in a wormhole since the first year they were out, and haven't played EVE much since then either. But I come back about once a year, for at least a few months, and try to find a way to have fun in the game with the little quality time I have for it.

Back in February, when I resubbed for the monument, I had this great idea of trying to go into a wormhole solo. I don't get much playtime that isn't easily interrupted, and going in solo, at least I wouldn't get anybody else killed... So one night I got drunk and flew to Oursulaert and bought an Orca. A week later I determined that I couldn't pull it off, so I sold the Orca, and when my month was up I ended my sub.

About a month ago I was itching to play again so I resubbed. This time I got drunk and went to Jita and bought an Orca and a POS.

Anyway the point is that I see the changes as a solo pilot, with only one account, allowing for at most 3 alts and none simultaneously. So risk management is my primary concern. Maybe what I'm trying to do shouldn't be possible, I don't know. I see it as a challenge and that could be fun... if the risk isn't entirely against me.

To be clear, when I speak of risk I mean specifically the risk of getting ganked while trying to do something something productive, with little chance to prevent it. Whether it's to fund PvP or just for the ISK, those who weren't already loaded when they came in need to earn money. People who want to PvP will PvP, people should still get ganked when doing productive things, but too much of that and people burn out.

When I was drunk in Jita I bought an Ore Compressor, because "hey cool an ore compressor" but then I found out that ore sites are anoms now. So I still have to spam the scan button if I want to mine, but there's less chance it will matter. It's basically me against the lock delay from cloaking, or if they decloak on warp in it's just splat time. I mean at least before I had some kind of chance, watching for probes. I know that's not the point of this thread or Hyperion but it's a major risk factor for me.

The thing is the anom change might not have been as bad without the increase in connections from Hyperion. I'm not going to be rolling holes, but I'm glad people can, as I'm sure some would roll away. I want to make ISK some other way than L4's, wormholes provide that option, or at least I'm willing to risk 2b ISK worth of my space crap to see if they do. That's pretty much all I have except for my L4 mission ships and modules. Hyperion has me on the fence about the whole thing. I'll probably still try, but if I'm losing ventures and drakes left and right it's hard to see how it would be worth it. If I can cover POS fuel, losses, and still make enough to buy PvP ships then it could end up being a fun adventure.

In the end I'm not against joining a wormhole corp to lower the risk, but being a full-time worker, parent, and husband really limits what I can contribute. I'm not saying the game should be made easy enough for me to solo, I just liked how things were setup before, and had worked for a very long time, as far as wormholes go. Plus I love the masochistic relationship between convincing yourself you'll be fine scanning lots of stuff down everyday, and being stuck in a WH whining about scanning stuff down all day. It's like the hot sauce of EVE, the repetition, it burns, but we love it.

<3 ★★★

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
God Arthie
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#2009 - 2014-10-01 08:18:38 UTC
Subscription is ending, no fix in Oceanus so I think i'l just stay out of EvE for some time.
Was fun pre-hyperion.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2010 - 2014-10-01 15:57:40 UTC
Guys, did you hear? CCP Fozzie claimed that "All contribution is valuable"! Maybe we can see some changes after all!
/sarcasm
Dreekus
Pls Be Gentle
#2011 - 2014-10-01 17:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dreekus
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Guys, did you hear? CCP Fozzie claimed that "All contribution is valuable"! Maybe we can see some changes after all!
/sarcasm



I don't know why you think you are being sarcastic. There was one change in Oceanus... I mean fix.

sleeper RR fix
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#2012 - 2014-10-01 17:49:11 UTC
Dreekus wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Guys, did you hear? CCP Fozzie claimed that "All contribution is valuable"! Maybe we can see some changes after all!
/sarcasm



I don't why you think you are being sarcastic. There was one change in Oceanus... I mean fix.

sleeper RR fix



Any fix that decrease your income is good right? Then again, they probably to busy with the feedback regarding the travel changes now to bother with wormholes for a while. On that note, moving caps into wormholes could end up a bit of a pain with these changes too..
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2013 - 2014-10-01 22:07:57 UTC
I'd just like to remind nullsec dudes that the new jump fatigue mechanics and this WH rolling thing is pretty much the same thing.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#2014 - 2014-10-02 02:50:22 UTC
Um, no. Jump fatigue begins accumulating exponentially and fades in a linear fashion, punishing the scrublords for helicopter dicking about the whole galaxy instantly. Double-tap wears off the instant you do your 5 minute derp penance.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2015 - 2014-10-02 20:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Trinkets friend wrote:
Um, no. Jump fatigue begins accumulating exponentially and fades in a linear fashion, punishing the scrublords for helicopter dicking about the whole galaxy instantly. Double-tap wears off the instant you do your 5 minute derp penance.



Yup not really the same thing, more " we do not want you doing it at all and if you do ignore us and bounce around the galaxy like tigger -(or a kangaroo on speed) - mindlessly hotdropping everything bigger than a shuttle, then it will be the next millenium before you can do so again"

Seems fairLol
I am sure they will adapt™

But suprisingly they do not seem to like it though?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2016 - 2014-10-02 23:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pritovsky Pootis
Still no CCP response. Come on, corbexx even told you guys that even just communicating with us would go a long way to reduce the rage levels!

But no, I guess we get the silence treatment still.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2017 - 2014-10-03 03:51:49 UTC
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:
Still no CCP response. Come on, corbexx even told you guys that even just communicating with us would go a long way to reduce the rage levels!

But no, I guess we get the silence treatment still.


They're currently scrambling to apply suicide triage carriers on their 246 page threadnaught regarding the jump changes, but it now takes time to move that many jumps....
Mindo Junde
Somnium Vita
#2018 - 2014-10-04 13:20:50 UTC
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:
Still no CCP response. Come on, corbexx even told you guys that even just communicating with us would go a long way to reduce the rage levels!

But no, I guess we get the silence treatment still.


To be fair i think fozzie moved on to F**king over null sec. he's screwed wh's, buggered up modules (and thats only just started). he's very egalitarian - he's happy to **** up anybody's playing experience. Does he have shares in SC or E:D?
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2019 - 2014-10-04 15:02:25 UTC
Mindo Junde wrote:
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:
Still no CCP response. Come on, corbexx even told you guys that even just communicating with us would go a long way to reduce the rage levels!

But no, I guess we get the silence treatment still.


To be fair i think fozzie moved on to F**king over null sec. he's screwed wh's, buggered up modules (and thats only just started). he's very egalitarian - he's happy to **** up anybody's playing experience. Does he have shares in SC or E:D?


Sure seems like it.

If by any chance you do read this thread at any point CCP, do understand that this issue isn't going to just disappear because you ignore it. Scrapping this change won't immediately bring back all the people that have left WH space (it's far, far too late for that), but at the very least it could potentially encourage some corps back again given time. All we have now is dead WHs and long chains with hardly any content! These figures you said you'd show to us are probably telling you this already which I assume is why you aren't actually going to show them, right?

Could we at least get one post to show that we are still being listened to? Sure I understand that the nullsec threadnaught requires a lot of attention but at the moment we're feeling very ignored here.
Pritovsky Pootis
Eschelon Directive
Quantum Inquisition
#2020 - 2014-10-08 04:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pritovsky Pootis
*Dons tinfoil hat*

Guys, see the event posts about the "collect sleeper loot for empires and get cool stuff"?

What if, right...hear me out on this...it will sound crazy...

What if, it was to get people into WH space so that CCP can give us a graph showing higher player numbers after the patch, and that by doing so, they are trying to get more people living in WH space because they realised how much they messed up with this change but don't want to admit it? What if they are doing that instead of reverting this change in order to artificially (temporarily) boost WH activity to cover it up?

What if, guys?

*removes tinfoil hat*

Any response yet from CCP? Its been what, a month or two since the last post?