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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

First post First post First post
Author
Duckslayer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2014-07-29 15:36:20 UTC
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5yUfi0k.png[/img]


Geddon seems totally balanced yo.
Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2014-07-29 15:36:30 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
Ishtars are popular because of the old drone assist exploit FC's used in the past. So allot of people are using ishtars because of this. Nerfing them any more then what was already done is too much. Then you have the folks who have been destroyed by a small gang of ishtars complaining even though they brought kitchen sink fleet fitted for anoms to counter them. People are after the ishtar because it is the preferred ship due to its ability to deploy sentry’s and run around tricking the enemy to stay in the range of influence of the sentry guns. If you nerf the Ishtar the complaints will just move to the tengu or the demios. If you want to make a change try buffing web drones or nerfing sentry EHP.


Partially correct. Drone assist was a lot of the reason, however they are still very overpowered compared to their counterparts. Which other HAC does 670dps at 72k + 48k falloff? Or 752 dps at 41k + 18k falloff?

...while also having a decent tank and is capable of 1,500+ m/s?

I can't think of any...they are far too much into the realms of BS-level DPS and need addressing. The current plans do not go far enough however.

People are already complaining about the Tengu, not sure about the Deimos (really?), although Tengu's are not invincible by any means.

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#123 - 2014-07-29 15:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Mizhir wrote:

One suggestion would be to remove or nerf the drone control range bonus forcing people to give up more fitting for an extra drone range thingy to use it as longrange sentry boat.


Good point. In addition, maybe fitting a drone damage mod should reduce your control range by 5km...
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2014-07-29 15:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Greygal wrote:
Is there a timetable for the Ishtar and other HAC changes to go live? I.e., will these changes be going live before, during, or after the Alliance Tournament?

Thanks!

GG


Hyperion's release date is September 23, 2014, so after the AT.


According to the thread title, it says Hyperion.
According to this and this, Hyperion's Release date is September 23rd. (which may be incorrect).

Accoding to CCP Fozzie's recent tweet, it will go live on Aug 26th, in the middle of the Tourney.

Is hyperion being moved up, is CCP Fozzie wrong, or can we please remove the "Hyperion" tag on this F&I post since it will be released PRIOR to Hyperion?



Hyperion is currently scheduled for August 26th and this change is scheduled for Hyperion.
Note how the RPS article also has an incorrect date for Crius.

You can also find the accurate release schedule for the rest of this year's releases in CCP Seagull's dev blog here: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ccp-seagull-becomes-executive-producer-for-eve-online/

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2014-07-29 15:39:09 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Ishtar: remove the sentry/heavy bonuses, replace with mediums.

That's why they're wrecking everything. My Vagabond isn't sporting Cruise Missiles or 1200mm artillery. Take the BS weapon systems away from the medium size HAC, suddenly it's back in it's own weight class, still punching above it with powerful medium weapons, T2 resists, the extra operation range, etc. The change being proposed might as well not happen. People will drop whatever utility they had in their mids and pop on an extra Omni. Nerf un-nerfed.

Tempest: Pull the high slot.

The current 8-5-6 is pretty versatile; stop trying to force her into an armor tank. Read your own flavor text
Evelopedia wrote:
The Tempest is one of the Republic Fleet's key vessels; a versatile gunship proficient at long-range bombardment and capable of dishing out specialized types of damage with great effectiveness.
She's primarily an artillery boat. 'Long range bombardment' with artillery requires low slots for gyros and TEs. If you want the Tempest to come back into play, pull the extra hi and give it to the mids. Now you've got a 7-6-6 with room for either tank, she's still versatile with a utility hi, the option to mount missiles, and still built to hammer the hell out of targets.


versatile doesn't mean artillery, and flavour text comes after game balance.

I obviously would favour a split weapons ship like the old phoon, but that's obviously not happening with all the split weapons hate and CCP incompetence.
bundy bear
Doomheim
#126 - 2014-07-29 15:42:52 UTC
Can we get the sacrileges spare high moved into the lows please. The ship is so damn underwhelming.
Mister Vee
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2014-07-29 15:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Vee
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hyperion is currently scheduled for August 26th and this change is scheduled for Hyperion.
Note how the RPS article also has an incorrect date for Crius.

You can also find the accurate release schedule for the rest of this year's releases in CCP Seagull's dev blog here: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ccp-seagull-becomes-executive-producer-for-eve-online/


How does 'we can update quickly now' translate to posting a change that won't go live for another month and won't change anything to begin with?

You could literally remove 2 sentry drones from the ishtar and people would still use them. Those three drones alone will still outdamage other hacs, still be able to choose damagetype, the ship will still be immune to one type of ewar (without the missile travel time disadvantage, mind).

The only downside to sentries is that they can be killed, but when that happens, the ishtar fleet will just disengage or deploy depots and refit. Super fun gameplay elements going on there~

edit: forgot to mention, drone doctrines also create so much extra lag. If two fleets of ~200 fight eachother, tidi drops to something like 10-20% if both depend on drones, 30-40% if one one fleet does and negligible amounts if neither do. I just don't understand how that meshes with CCP's aim to make large fights actually enjoyable
Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#128 - 2014-07-29 15:47:37 UTC
bundy bear wrote:
Can we get the sacrileges spare high moved into the lows please. The ship is so damn underwhelming.


It could use another low, but not at the expense of the 'spare' high. That high has a very good use.
Azure Rayl
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2014-07-29 15:48:21 UTC
bundy bear wrote:
Can we get the sacrileges spare high moved into the lows please. The ship is so damn underwhelming.


and for an armor tanking ship, i feel 5 lowslots isnt enough.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#130 - 2014-07-29 15:50:56 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Do you feel like 10m/s is enough for the Eagle? Today, on MWD an Eagle is 150m/s slower than a heavily plated Deimos and 200+ m/s slower than the longer range Cerberus.

Even with this +10m/s, you are only giving Eagle pilots one viable fit and in doing so reducing player choice.


surely the slowest race should actually be the slowest? something else that bugs me is on some of their ships, CCP give them reduced sig radius, to make up for having to shield tank. it all just defeats the point.
Azure Rayl
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2014-07-29 15:50:58 UTC
Azure Rayl wrote:
bundy bear wrote:
Can we get the sacrileges spare high moved into the lows please. The ship is so damn underwhelming.


and for an armor tanking ship, i feel 5 lowslots isnt enough, especially being a HAC.

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2014-07-29 15:51:29 UTC
Sister Bliss wrote:
Which other HAC does 670dps at 72k + 48k falloff? Or 752 dps at 41k + 18k falloff?

But sentries are oh so vulnerable!
Wait a minute...
A typical Ishtar sports 80k EHP, which is fine. But it can field at least 15 sentries, 8k EHP each. And it's whooping 120k EHP.
I'd suggest reducing base sentry EHP and/or remove drone HP bonus for Ishtar.
Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-07-29 15:51:46 UTC
Yo Rise, the reason for battleships being the way they are, meaning, not being fielded in large numbers by anyone except the CFC if they can hug a pos or station is because of bombers.

Bombers are and have been in a ridiculous state for a while now

Its so easy to bomb and wipe out an entire fleet that more and more people are multiboxing bomber squads themselves.

.

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#134 - 2014-07-29 15:51:58 UTC
Duckslayer wrote:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5yUfi0k.png[/img]


Geddon seems totally balanced yo.


How about you put 800's in your cap booster instead of 25s unless you are tying to make it missleading.

after looking at that fit further I have no idea what you are trying to get across with that? No skills either being used.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#135 - 2014-07-29 15:53:53 UTC
Changing the speed and tracking slightly won't change anything friend, ishtars are still going to be able to volley stuff from insane distances without the fleet ever not having the opportunity to disengage. Improving the speed of the other HAC's does nothing for the ishtar fleet comp, as no one in their right mind would use those HAC's to try and counter them.

That's why you need to look at battleships, because battleships are the only real ships that have the buffer to tank the insane volley from sentry drones. Right now, to do it properly, the only realistic battleship you can use against them is the navy apoc, as the apoc doesn't tank well enough and the abaddon doesnt get the range to be effective.
Dracoth Simertet
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#136 - 2014-07-29 15:54:25 UTC
Rather than lowering the optimal/tracking bonus on the Ishtar how about having it apply to heavy drones only?

o7
Drac
SuperSpy00bob
North Eastern Swat
#137 - 2014-07-29 15:55:05 UTC
Do what you did to the Muninn, steal a high for a low. There's already a ton of 4-mid battleships, stealing a mid from the Tempest will kill it's versatility, which frankly is about the only thing it has.

IMO, either buff the crap out of it's gun bonus in lieu of (or until) reworking projectiles, or make it 7/5/7 so it's can still have some versatile fittings that aren't the same mwd/point/web/injector/armor tank fits that half of every other BS hull uses.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#138 - 2014-07-29 15:56:49 UTC
why would you balance something in the middle of a running tournament? Does the new release cycle make it impossible to ship changes between releases?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2014-07-29 15:58:08 UTC
Actually, keep the Ishtar exactly how it is.

WTB 800DPS out to 50km Vagabond
with the same tank and speed pls

rise pls

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Duckslayer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2014-07-29 15:58:32 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Duckslayer wrote:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5yUfi0k.png[/img]


Geddon seems totally balanced yo.


How about you put 800's in your cap booster instead of 25s unless you are tying to make it missleading.

after looking at that fit further I have no idea what you are trying to get across with that? No skills either being used.

Its a ship that with 6 days of training you can get in.
Its a noble idea by my alliance to get newbies into something useful for cap fights almost instantly.
The fit gets fed cap by carriers, but you can put 800s in the cap booster too.
Its supposed to be a no skill fit
Look how ridiculously useful it is in comparison to any other 6 day old battleship fit you care to work



My point was more "CCP Rise is terrible at balance" as that is his baby right there. A bit cryptic im sorry