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[I-RED] "Project Dustbowl" DECLASSIFIED
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Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-07-30 23:22:20 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
the situation of the average joe, who previously was at the mercy of criminals.

Unless I-RED provides information that demonstrates otherwise, it would appear that they actually still are.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-07-30 23:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
the situation of the average joe, who previously was at the mercy of criminals.

Unless I-RED provides information that demonstrates otherwise, it would appear that they actually still are.


I don't think it's fair to call them criminals yet. Suspects? Possibly, but certainly not criminals. Here in the Federation, it's innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around like it is in most other ares in the cluster.

We have a reason to suspect them. Their own official reports, and their attitude about them of course. However, until there is an official investigation by someone (or preferably, multiple people) that confirms our suspicions, it's rather poor taste to officially label them like this.

All we have are a few ambiguous statements. That's really not a lot to work with.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Utsukushi Shi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-07-31 00:57:18 UTC
That point where Kim and Thiesant are on the same side.

You must be doing something right Oniseki-haan.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#64 - 2014-07-31 01:38:29 UTC
Utsukushi Shi wrote:
That point where Kim and Thiesant are on the same side.

You must be doing something right Oniseki-haan.

Like I said, bringing the cluster together. Big smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
#65 - 2014-07-31 02:03:36 UTC
Utsukushi Shi wrote:
That point where Kim and Thiesant are on the same side.


I can confirm at this time that Tibus Heth was a Gallentean agent and in fact Diana has been working with the Federation for many years now in deep cover in order to discredit the Caldari.

... well, no, I can't, but this is a strange day indeed.
Anslo
Scope Works
#66 - 2014-07-31 02:23:21 UTC
Tibus Heth was a former shampoo model who, after an accident that destroyed his luscious locks, tried his hand at universal domination. Welp.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#67 - 2014-07-31 02:24:32 UTC
Well, I suppose since I'm home and in my nightgown, I can address the important concerns of the IGS. This is, after all, my favorite part of the day.


First of all, the contract. Technically we had no real legal authority over the colonies under SCC law. By we, I mean the capsuleer outfit known as Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive. However, the contracts were not signed under I-RED. They were signed under what could best be described as a shell company that simply represented us in a manner that was legal. Could we, the capsuleers, bomb them into submission with our ships? No. Did we? Also, no. I'll get to that part later. See, the reality is that as a capsuleer you can't really do much of anything under your own name. You can't even buy a dress at a store with that ISK... unless it's that NEX thing.

So, I-RED did on a larger scale what we all do on smaller scales. We use a shell company - whether it be our own or somebody else's - to make the transactions for us in a legal manner that bypasses the SCC. It's a legal grey-area depending on where you are, and fortunately for those colonies - "grey area" in the Syndicate with no government to represent you usually ends up meaning "legal". Would that shell be legal in the Federation or State? Probably not, because it wasn't registered or drafted according to those legal intricacies.

Now on to the word "Sterilized". I must apologize for my affection toward that particular word. I like the way it sounds. It leaves the results feeling 'clean' and 'sanitary for business'. Did we kill anybody who wasn't already shooting at us? I don't think so, no. Certainly not intentionally. Did we kill people at all? Yes. The total lethal-response count stands at 65 cases confirmed and 12 still under investigation. We do actually take it quite seriously. Of those 65, 44 were confirmed or strongly suspected Serpentis operatives while the remaining were violent crimes.

As for my ill manners about "freedom" and "liberty", you must understand I've been working for several years in a place where those two words have meant very little good. They may be bastions and safeguards of civilization in Federal highsec, but they are NOT seen so ideally here. I'm also not Gallentean. I'm Caldari, and I don't run a business of idealism. Freedom and Liberty are idealist philosophies put to law, which I find to be a dangerous and ineffective means of life. Nonetheless, most of the planning was not handled by myself - but by a panel of other Caldari who are equally uninterested in holding up Federal ideals in a completely unrelated region and situation.

As for a guided tour of these locations, I suppose we can work with that, yes. I'll even throw in a tour of the sterilized colony, just to lay these mass murder concerns to rest.

Katrina Oniseki
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-07-31 02:42:50 UTC
My specific issue with the "freedom and liberty" bit really wasn't so much that you were disrespecting the "great and mighty and unflappable pillars of Federation virtue", but moreso that it seemed oddly out of place and snippy in an otherwise very professionally worded document. That's why I thought it might have just been a joke.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#69 - 2014-07-31 02:44:18 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
My specific issue with the "freedom and liberty" bit really wasn't so much that you were disrespecting the "great and mighty and unflappable pillars of Federation virtue", but moreso that it seemed oddly out of place and snippy in an otherwise very professionally worded document. That's why I thought it might have just been a joke.


I could redeem myself and say it was, but it wasn't. I'm really just that pessimistic about it.

Katrina Oniseki
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-07-31 02:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bryen Verrisai
Setting aside all that legal stuff, there was one thing I wanted to ask but I'm not sure if your security SOP will allow you to answer: assuming these colonies are very big success to the point that their ability to generate resources and/or revenue draws the attention of the Syndicate, what will (or can) you do should the Syndicate seek to take possession of the colonies, either by force or through other methods?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#71 - 2014-07-31 02:57:26 UTC
I find that eventuality extremely unlikely, as the Syndicate is still expressly forbidden from claiming any planets in the region. The Big Bad Federation is the one who made that call, remember? It's the biggest reason they've ignored the settlers so far already, because they have to.

If, by some unfortunate and improbable happenstance they did decide to claim the colonies... well, I guess there isn't a whole lot we can do. What we would try, if anything, is probably not something I can talk about here.

Katrina Oniseki
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#72 - 2014-07-31 03:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
From the report, it looks the the "civilizing" was done by the Amarrians. That excuse hasn't ended well for the people being "civilized" in the past.

As you wrote that in response to an Amarrian, it should come with little surprise that I'm not agreeing at all. Especially for those that converted freely it ended quite well. Take, for example, the Khanid.
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#73 - 2014-07-31 03:16:20 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
From the report, it looks the the "civilizing" was done by the Amarrians. That excuse hasn't ended well for the people being "civilized" in the past.

As you wrote that in response to an Amarrian, it should come with little surprise that I'm not agreeing at all. Especially for those that converted freely it ended quite well. Take, for example, the Khanid.


Or the Ni-Kunni who spent less than two generations as slaves and were rapidly adopted into the Empire.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#74 - 2014-07-31 03:26:09 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Well, I suppose since I'm home and in my nightgown, I can address the important concerns of the IGS. This is, after all, my favorite part of the day.


First of all, the contract. Technically we had no real legal authority over the colonies under SCC law. By we, I mean the capsuleer outfit known as Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive. However, the contracts were not signed under I-RED. They were signed under what could best be described as a shell company that simply represented us in a manner that was legal. Could we, the capsuleers, bomb them into submission with our ships? No. Did we? Also, no. I'll get to that part later. See, the reality is that as a capsuleer you can't really do much of anything under your own name. You can't even buy a dress at a store with that ISK... unless it's that NEX thing.

So, I-RED did on a larger scale what we all do on smaller scales. We use a shell company - whether it be our own or somebody else's - to make the transactions for us in a legal manner that bypasses the SCC. It's a legal grey-area depending on where you are, and fortunately for those colonies - "grey area" in the Syndicate with no government to represent you usually ends up meaning "legal". Would that shell be legal in the Federation or State? Probably not, because it wasn't registered or drafted according to those legal intricacies.

Now on to the word "Sterilized". I must apologize for my affection toward that particular word. I like the way it sounds. It leaves the results feeling 'clean' and 'sanitary for business'. Did we kill anybody who wasn't already shooting at us? I don't think so, no. Certainly not intentionally. Did we kill people at all? Yes. The total lethal-response count stands at 65 cases confirmed and 12 still under investigation. We do actually take it quite seriously. Of those 65, 44 were confirmed or strongly suspected Serpentis operatives while the remaining were violent crimes.

As for my ill manners about "freedom" and "liberty", you must understand I've been working for several years in a place where those two words have meant very little good. They may be bastions and safeguards of civilization in Federal highsec, but they are NOT seen so ideally here. I'm also not Gallentean. I'm Caldari, and I don't run a business of idealism. Freedom and Liberty are idealist philosophies put to law, which I find to be a dangerous and ineffective means of life. Nonetheless, most of the planning was not handled by myself - but by a panel of other Caldari who are equally uninterested in holding up Federal ideals in a completely unrelated region and situation.

As for a guided tour of these locations, I suppose we can work with that, yes. I'll even throw in a tour of the sterilized colony, just to lay these mass murder concerns to rest.

when are you planning on giving these tours, I'd like to see what it is exactly you do out there...

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-07-31 05:39:26 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
The only thing that struck me as particularly sketchy in the announcement was the fact that I-RED was aware that the contracts they were having signed were not actually valid, and that they withheld that information from the signers.

Lets put it simple, this is a behavior of a pirate organization, not Caldari business corporation.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-07-31 05:41:26 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

As for Kimmy, the Intaki are part of the Federation. A portion of them did support the Caldari when they ceded from the Federation, but they as a people remain citizens. A Galnet search can verify this if you don't believe me. As for comparing them to the syndicate and Mordu's legion, those are both privately owned corps, not comparable to a race of people.

Just great, the whole Intaki Syndicate now with all that null space is a "privately owned corp"?
So much for gallentean education~

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-07-31 05:42:47 UTC
Utsukushi Shi wrote:
That point where Kim and Thiesant are on the same side.

You must be doing something right Oniseki-haan.

Lies and anti-Caldari propaganda.
I would never stay on his side, I'd better kill myself!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-07-31 07:30:13 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:



First of all, the contract. Technically we had no real legal authority over the colonies under SCC law. By we, I mean the capsuleer outfit known as Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive. However, the contracts were not signed under I-RED. They were signed under what could best be described as a shell company that simply represented us in a manner that was legal. Could we, the capsuleers, bomb them into submission with our ships? No. Did we? Also, no. I'll get to that part later. See, the reality is that as a capsuleer you can't really do much of anything under your own name. You can't even buy a dress at a store with that ISK... unless it's that NEX thing.

So, I-RED did on a larger scale what we all do on smaller scales. We use a shell company - whether it be our own or somebody else's - to make the transactions for us in a legal manner that bypasses the SCC. It's a legal grey-area depending on where you are, and fortunately for those colonies - "grey area" in the Syndicate with no government to represent you usually ends up meaning "legal". Would that shell be legal in the Federation or State? Probably not, because it wasn't registered or drafted according to those legal intricacies.


I have done similarly things in the past, being out in null security space often requires the use of such shell corporations. It's not technically legal, but I haven't found a case where doing such a thing was harmful. It's merely a way for business minded capsuleers to get around barriers that do nothing but slow down progress.

Quote:
Now on to the word "Sterilized". I must apologize for my affection toward that particular word. I like the way it sounds. It leaves the results feeling 'clean' and 'sanitary for business'. Did we kill anybody who wasn't already shooting at us? I don't think so, no. Certainly not intentionally. Did we kill people at all? Yes. The total lethal-response count stands at 65 cases confirmed and 12 still under investigation. We do actually take it quite seriously. Of those 65, 44 were confirmed or strongly suspected Serpentis operatives while the remaining were violent crimes.


This clears some of my concerns up. I'm still a little uneasy, but I'm satisfied that you clarified what you meant. Sixty five fatalities when dealing with colonies of millions or even hundreds of millions of people isn't bad. Civil unrest is expected, especially with such high influence from criminal groups.

Quote:
As for my ill manners about "freedom" and "liberty", you must understand I've been working for several years in a place where those two words have meant very little good. They may be bastions and safeguards of civilization in Federal highsec, but they are NOT seen so ideally here. I'm also not Gallentean. I'm Caldari, and I don't run a business of idealism. Freedom and Liberty are idealist philosophies put to law, which I find to be a dangerous and ineffective means of life. Nonetheless, most of the planning was not handled by myself - but by a panel of other Caldari who are equally uninterested in holding up Federal ideals in a completely unrelated region and situation.


My primary concern with this comes from a rather textbook imperialistic takeover of these colonies. Normally the State is quite opposed to such ventures. While I-RED does not represent the whole State, they have been known to uphold traditional State values. As a result I have to ask, were these forced conversions and influx of State and Amarrian culture truly necessary for this project's success if it is the humanitarian operation you claim it to be?

Quote:

As for a guided tour of these locations, I suppose we can work with that, yes. I'll even throw in a tour of the sterilized colony, just to lay these mass murder concerns to rest.


I'll be planet side for the next two weeks in Dodixie trying to set things up for my show so a tour will have to wait. If this offer is still available in the future then I might just take you up on it provided the security of myself or my representatives is not an issue.

If you don't feel comfortable with me taking a look around, I have numerous contacts in the State and the Empire that would be willing to do the job for me.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-07-31 07:33:23 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:

As you wrote that in response to an Amarrian, it should come with little surprise that I'm not agreeing at all. Especially for those that converted freely it ended quite well. Take, for example, the Khanid.


Emphasis mine.

That's the key word here, "freely". Anyone that did not do it freely had a bad time. That said, we should probably have this conversation another time if you wish. I already know where this is going to go and this thread isn't the place for it I'm afraid.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#80 - 2014-07-31 07:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
Sure, Intaki won't establish or occupy planetside colonies.

That doesn't stop their Angel and Serpentis friends from making friendly orbital visits however.
Thank you for bringing this to public attention.

Claudia Osyn wrote:

The Intaki are part of the Federation, so warring with the Feds means warring with the Intaki.


I'm sure ms. en Diabel would find this rather humorous.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

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