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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#381 - 2014-05-19 05:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
Ines Tegator wrote:
Chessur wrote:
So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?

Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths

Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths

epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths


Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?


As we all know, EVE is a single character-per-account and single account-per-player world. This means that anything posted by a character with no discernable pvp history is, in fact, stupid.

Also, this is a form of ad hominem. The facts of the discussion are what matters, the source is irrelevent. Everyone could be anonymous and the content would not change.


Ok what facts are being argued here? What concrete numbers do you have about a module that isn't even released yet? Where are these truths?

This entire discussion is opinions about a hypothetical mod which is not in the game yet.

The source of the opinion is irrelevant? Ok. Next time you are in the hospital, and have someone looking at MRI images of your brain, who are you more likely to believe.

The custodian who says: Nope, doesn't look like cancer to me. I don't think so because I saw another image like this on a computer, and that was not cancer.

Or

The doctor who says: Yah, this may be cancer. Based off my many years of experience, and education in medical school- I can logically say that this group of cells looks cancerous.

According to you- both the custodian and the doctor should have equal value, and weight of their opinion in regards to the brain MRI
badboymark
Cyber Collapse.
Fanatic Legion.
#382 - 2014-05-19 06:01:45 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
badboymark wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous


What about if faction disruptors stopped them ?

That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1


I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ?
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#383 - 2014-05-19 06:03:29 UTC
badboymark wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
badboymark wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

I want to reinforce the feedback about it's range. Normal BC combat range (not counting ABCs) is 50km and under. This module does nothing to encourage BC combat. It is an escape device, and cannot be anything else due to the limitations of the platform on which it is mounted. At the range this module operates at, on-grid tactical bookmarks already serve the same in-combat purpose. Which once again leaves it primarily as an escape tool.

Maybe (I'm being charitable and trying to find a combat role where this module makes sense) this is meant to give BCs mobility on a large fleet field, against larger ships that are more spread out. If so, it's poorly implemented and unfocused. It's not worth unbalancing the rest of gameplay for this single niche purpose.

The MMJD as implemented will not fulfill the intended purpose of encouraging CBC's on the battlefield. It will make avoiding PVP easier; it will not significantly change the composition of gangs (jump range / weapon range mismatch prevents sniper tactics).

Suggestions to correct these flaws:
Make it vulnerable to HIC scripted points.
Reduce the jump range to 75km.
Make it vulnerable to bumping, just like standard warp alignment.
Adjust Lowsec Gate Guns to allow 10-15 seconds on target for an Interceptor that agresses, allowing the Interceptor to serve as a counter to this module.


Just make long points stop the MJD. Dont give 48 ships a get out of jail free card, when inside bubbles, or long pointed. That is ridiculous


What about if faction disruptors stopped them ?

That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1


I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ?


No. Warp strength does not determine MWD on / off. That is a warp scram only type of modifier on the module.

+2 Long points, already exist in game. They are officer long points. They do not turn off MWD
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#384 - 2014-05-19 06:04:52 UTC
badboymark wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:

That would be a simple warp strength thing. Which is a good idea as well (2+ long points deactivates it). +1


I'm not sure that would work because wouldn't that meann you can turn off MWD ? it would have to be a special trait or something right ?

Yeah, it would suck if it worked on MWD too. Definately a MJD only thing. At the least the general code is already in game for warp stabs.

note: if implemented, don't allow stabs to work on the MJD module. so many problems...

Overhaul Dscan!
badboymark
Cyber Collapse.
Fanatic Legion.
#385 - 2014-05-19 06:06:31 UTC

Well they turn off MJDs ?? Also officer point are only for BS or larger due to PG need's........ so maybe we can get something for Sub BS class ship's ?
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#386 - 2014-05-19 06:08:42 UTC
So much effort to try and rework the implementation of a bad idea so it does minimum damage to the game. I agree that making it not work when longpointed or having a warp strength threshold of 2 or making you go 0m/s when you land would all help but the fundamental issue is that this is a module which is directly at odds with the functionality of the long point in eve pvp.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#387 - 2014-05-19 06:10:17 UTC
badboymark wrote:

Well they turn off MJDs ?? Also officer point are only for BS or larger due to PG need's........ so maybe we can get something for Sub BS class ship's ?

Officer points do not turn off MJDs. Scrams have two points of warp strength when counting for the effect of warp core stabilisers but two points of warp strength, such as two warp disruptors, are not a scram.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#388 - 2014-05-19 06:11:58 UTC
with this module release we now need a scram web module all in one so i can have mwd mjd tackle module and injector.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#389 - 2014-05-19 06:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Wrathful Penguins
or you could fly a myrm which has great dps, more than enough tank to endure someone trying to kite it and enough mids for mwd, injector, mjd, scram and web
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#390 - 2014-05-19 06:48:27 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Chessur wrote:
So many bad posts in this page. So many people with no PvP experience mouthing off to players that are vastly more knowledgeable and experienced. Since you cannot post killboards, can we instead simply post kills of the more belligerent and misguided?

Challenged: 104 Kills / 58 Deaths

Arthur Aihaken: 65 Kills / 171 Deaths

epicurus ataraxia: 12 Kills / 17 Deaths


Does experience, and in game knowledge have any weight placed on the comments here? Because from what I am seeing- most if not all of the PRO MMJD are people have rather poor PvP skill / knowledge / experience. While the OVERWHELMING majority of people against MMJD have quite a bit more skill / knowledge / experience.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?


As we all know, EVE is a single character-per-account and single account-per-player world. This means that anything posted by a character with no discernable pvp history is, in fact, stupid.

Also, this is a form of ad hominem. The facts of the discussion are what matters, the source is irrelevent. Everyone could be anonymous and the content would not change.

Yes, I'm sure people with lots of PVP experience are posting on characters that have very little.
The vast majority of people who post with alts do so because they're afraid of retribution for their postings. People who PVP aren't afraid of that - most would probably welcome the attempt.

However much someone does or doesn't PVP is relevant to how likely it is that their argument is based in experience rather than conjecture.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#391 - 2014-05-19 07:01:05 UTC
Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.

However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.

1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic

Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.

Kali Omega
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#392 - 2014-05-19 07:05:21 UTC
No..plain and simple
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#393 - 2014-05-19 07:09:32 UTC
I'm up to page 18, but there is a bit of confusion on my part due to this thread and another.

This thread: Too easy to avoid fights, easy get out of jail free card, ect ect ect.

DST Thread: Worthless bonus, won't really help you escape anything, and single dictor will still stop you.

Either these are either overpowered get out of fight modules or they aren't, and I'm not sure which.

Suggestion, since CCP seems to want to nerf power projection, balance the isotope market, and give people these mods: Require a small amount of multispectrum topes to use them. Nothing huge, just a handful will do per jump.
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#394 - 2014-05-19 07:10:18 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.

However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.

1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic

Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.



What they really needed to do was capital MJDs.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#395 - 2014-05-19 07:14:42 UTC
William Darkk wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
These would work well on T3s and HACs also.

That would completely defeat the point.


T3's could be given them during rebalance to make some use out of the less popular subsystems. Versatility over specialisation and all that.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#396 - 2014-05-19 07:16:11 UTC
Meandering Milieu wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.

However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.

1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic

Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.



What they really needed to do was capital MJDs.


You already have something that delivers you, from multiple systems away, right to within 5km of whoevers day you're ruining. What more do you want?
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#397 - 2014-05-19 07:19:07 UTC
ABCs should not get them.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#398 - 2014-05-19 07:27:04 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Meandering Milieu wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Interesting idea for DSTs, I'd expand this to the Orca for sure.

However, the BC thing is more complicated. MJD is meant to enhance mobility on slow and cumbersome ships.

1) ABCs don't need a mobility buff
2) CBCs don't have the lock range to use MMJDs as combat tactic

Which means that on CBCs, MMJD @ 100 would be a purely evasive tactic, but it wouldn't help them in actual combat at all. Make the MMJD range 50km, leave ABCs out of it, and it becomes an interesting tactical tool for CBCs.



What they really needed to do was capital MJDs.


You already have something that delivers you, from multiple systems away, right to within 5km of whoevers day you're ruining. What more do you want?


The ability to jump from one cyno to another in the same system. The ability to bridge to a cyno in the same system would be amazing too.

Not even a cap pilot, I'm just messing around. The ability for a cap ship to instantly jump 100km would be nice though, since MJDs were apparently introduced to make ships more mobile. The battleship class clearly deserves it, and caps are even less maneuverable on field.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#399 - 2014-05-19 07:46:59 UTC
Caps don't need MJDs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#400 - 2014-05-19 07:55:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
bcs don't need MJDs.

fixed