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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#61 - 2014-05-17 17:21:01 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.


Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been.
Eanna Heart
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-05-17 17:22:25 UTC
Fozzie pls go.

"I want to encourage industry in nullsec."

"Let's make nullsec logistics more costly, difficult, and risky."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#63 - 2014-05-17 17:22:49 UTC
Kember Ibuen wrote:
Yet another win for the gankers as if it isn't already easy enough for them to kill freighters. I don't think I'm going to be playing this game much longer the way things are heading.


Just remember, you guys asked for it.

Begged, even. All the while thinking it would come as a net buff.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dave Stark
#64 - 2014-05-17 17:23:13 UTC
Batolemaeus wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.


Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been.


even with the reduced hull values?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#65 - 2014-05-17 17:24:09 UTC
Batolemaeus wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.


Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been.

But my hull hitpoints just got nerfed while my armor got boosted. Makes no sense to stick with hull when I can't have the benefit of resistances with it. There are no hull resist rigs.
Triturus Alpestris
Bad Taste.
#66 - 2014-05-17 17:24:28 UTC
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#67 - 2014-05-17 17:25:02 UTC
lol

The easy, safe and rapid transport of large volumes of materials is one of the reasons why we have a single big hub. It's too easy to just move everything to Jita. Brave changes.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#68 - 2014-05-17 17:25:19 UTC
I love the fact that we will be able to customize the freighters now but being able to customize them to current or slightly better levels at a much higher cost doesn't make much sense. My basic observation of the numbers without doing any math maybe complete wrong but it looks like this is a major nerf.
So the question is then, did freighters require a nerf? Were they too OP in the current form?

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-05-17 17:25:45 UTC
Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2014-05-17 17:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Proton Power wrote:
This is in no way helpful to freighters; it is pure nerf unless you only haul small amounts and put in 3 rigs for war/speed/agilty; Everyoen else that uses freighters for what they are meant have been nerfed...

*clears throat*

Told you so. Lol

This is exactly what everyone of us who was against this idea said was going to happen. It really shouldn't be any surprise.

Dave Stark wrote:
even with the reduced hull values?

Should be. The Providence gets an 18% reduction in hull; each T1 hull rig gives a 20% bonus. You should be able to squeeze another 50k EHP out three of them. I haven't checked whether bumping its armour might give you more, though.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-05-17 17:28:27 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful.

For once, I agree with you -- the changes that most people are complaining about are one-time costs in the form of adding rigs. It's painful, but only once.

The agility thing is also fairly minor, but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I guess. I'd like to hear the justification for it, and if it is indeed because of worries of rigging for agility, I would have to be convinced that anyone sane would ever do that instead of rigging for cargo. Otherwise, it just reduces quality of life for no real reason.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Mr IX
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-05-17 17:28:44 UTC
the changes to freighters I get and it makes a bit of sense .. the JF changes are completely stupid.

I get it you are adding rigs and making players chose current cargo hold size or agility but not both, BUT the fuel consumption changes are again stupid.

What is the thinking behind this? Truly if you wanted to nerf it to this level you would've had to given it something grandiose like 2 low slots 2 medium slots and 1 high slot along with the 2 rigs, OR giving JF an added Mineral only hold so that it can move processed minerals without having to compress ore or put into modules.

Again the fuel nerf why? It is not like the JF had the long legs of a carrier to begin with ..... dumb

Dave Stark
#73 - 2014-05-17 17:29:47 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Were they too OP in the current form?

give and take.

they gave you rig slots, they took away some base stats.

can't say i've done the maths thoroughly but it seems that with the appropriate rigs you can probably get better than current performance from one aspect of your freighter, at the cost of the other aspects.
time for people to make some decisions, i think.
Batolemaeus
Mahlstrom
Northern Associates.
#74 - 2014-05-17 17:32:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Batolemaeus wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.


Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been.


even with the reduced hull values?



Rigs add a percentage value. The providence has 2.5 as much hull as armor and a t1 resist profile. So yeah, it's not even a contest unless you fly around with a maxed armor boost alt.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2014-05-17 17:39:20 UTC
I warned you bears this would happen if rigs became a thing on freighters.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-05-17 17:39:27 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful.



I agree that they are a bit o/p and can avoid most entanglements - however the change they are making is not the only one - its the 50% increase in fuel costs coupled with a nerf to their cargo that has me wondering. That change was to help offset the POS changes they fear on the isotope markets - but has the net effect of driving up the price of all goods in null. Yes we will be making more things there - but logistics are not done with small haulers or regular freighters roaming about - lets face it the only way to get things around null is to jump.

Its basically going to make any new/small renter corps have to spend even more than they do now.

Not everyone in null has the luxury of a fully stocked station next to their home - though the proliferation of stations these last few years is making that less and less - i still think that raising the costs of living in null will not attract more people out.

They are modifying soooo many industrial things that each have dependencies upon other parts of the game. And these changes were thankfully rolled back to a later release - they are not even on SISi yet for testing.

Im fine with raising the price of everything I sell
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#77 - 2014-05-17 17:42:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I warned you bears this would happen if rigs became a thing on freighters.


That's the funniest part about it for me. For years now, people have asked for rigs like it was just some innocent thing, thinking it would be a net buff overall.

Reap the whirlwind, folks.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

TheButcherPete
Blackbase Incorporated
#78 - 2014-05-17 17:42:24 UTC
They still have the velocity bonus.... which is *mostly* useless.

oh yay my Freighter goes 100m/s. Yay. Totally could use that bonus over say, an agility or mass bonus to make FLYING a freighter less than soul crushingly boring.

I was excited for these changes, and then suddenly I was not. :(

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Doctor Who-Dat
Stuff Direct Holdings Inc
#79 - 2014-05-17 17:42:34 UTC
Since you are basically now having the Freighter / Jump Freighter hulls built 80% complete now, maybe they should take 80% of the build cost/components.
Kerplakershtat Rova
The Mostly Free People's Republic of Persephone
#80 - 2014-05-17 17:42:42 UTC
Great, so if you're wanting to go for cargohold over align time and use Capital Cargohold Optimization rigs, you get to sacrifice a bunch of armor HP too. I know they have the biggest cargoholds to begin with, but considering Fozzie is shaving a bunch of HP from hull and adding it to shields and/or armor, it feels like he's trying to force everyone into a Charon or Rhea.

Marlona Sky wrote:
Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful.


Yeah, and the 50% increase in fuel usage is already huge for anyone flying the damn things, the fact they're making you have to get T2 capital rigs (because making people shell out for T2 large rigs isn't enough) just to undo one of Fozzie's nerfs is a huge finger up to anyone who owns a jump freighter, let alone a regular one.