Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So the point of your original post here today, was?

frankly I think it's really bad that you can only achieve 50 mil per hour compared to everyone else who can make lvl 4 missions or Ratte or data site relic site wh we will sit here and work five times as hard to get earn one Plax and prodution is too pricey put in the time you wait 5-6 days to earn 50 mil on the market because the cost of putting it in operation + tax is too high for the head is worthwhile if you do not have multiple acounts I think not in order try low it a fair bit for us so we mines mines 50% faster compared to now .. just to make it a fair bit as we sit here staring into a screen exposed to pirates constantly just suicide ganker us ..

Ganking is the lowest it has ever been.

your income is so low because mining is so easy and everyone does it with several alts (oh and hardly anyone is getting ganked anymore).

if you want to earn more money, attack (or pay gankers to attack) the other miners and industrialist to stop them from taking your profits.

Bumping up the yield of ships makes the market for producing anything awful, not just noob mining frigs.

and noob combat frigs, T1 frigs and dessies are free.

noob ore ship for free, noob empire mining ship for free. little difference.

This almost sounds like you are blaming miners for adapting to the environment. It's not the miners' fault that the gankers haven't left them with another choice but to switch to Skiffs and Procurers. That's the "victory" Code is so proud of.

You're ignoring other sizeable parts of the problem, then.

Increasing the yield of barges won't really fix anything.

What it will actually do is drastically increase supply, lowering the value of ore and minerals... which will mean that miners have to continue to mine the same amount (or more) just to get the same amount of money.

The incredible tank of the Procurer/Skiff doesn't help matters much as it simply makes things TOO safe for miners (not joking, those things can get tanks similar to that of battlecruisers).

Of course... if the Procurers'/Skiffs' tank is lowered to make it vulnerable to ganking then you will have a plethora of people screaming "think of the newbies!" But then again... mineral prices would go up, making it more profitable.


As for ISboxer and programs like it... the only reasons it works so well is because of the Procurer's/Skiff's tank and the monotony of mining.
As said before, the tank of Procurer/Skiff is very high (which REALLY minimizes risk)
To make mining less monotonous you would have to make it more "player skill" intensive. A mini-game or something. Oh wait... but then that would lock out newbies again because it isn't "easy" anymore and people will have to learn it, master it, and not be afk... etc. etc.


tldr; you can't make any activity in a game (whose value is based on an open market) "safe and easy" without also making it low-paying.

The only reason level 4 missions don't have the same problem is because the agents and payouts are static and not dependent on the open market..

Miners were forced to use them. Before CODE, everyone used Macks/Hulks and other ships, which could be ganked easier. It's their victory for the game. Back then, people had a choice -- nowadays, they don't. I also don't think they are too safe. They just give enough tank to survive a lackluster gank attempt or gank attempt of newbies trying to be cool. With enough ships, you can still gank them. Not rewarding enough anymore? Well, that's the gankers' problem. If the balancing of a ship was measured on how easily gankable a ship is, we'd be in deep trouble. I wonder if that is going to be the next victory for that camp.

The second statement is not entirely true. L4 mission payout depends to a large extend on the open market. If you crash the implant market, your payment is reduced quite significantly. If you crash the market for Ammo, the same happens, same for modules.

People keep talking about yield rates and price drops and blah blah blah.
I have taken a few economic classes and first off I think most of the "shiz " is BS (not a battleship)

If people understood how inflation works they would understand that if trit was to go from say 6 isk today to 2 isk tomorrow the value would remain the same. It would still take you hundreds to thousands to billions of isk to make your friggen ship.

The biggest issue I have is that the prices keep inflating but the ways to make isk in the game don't increase at the same level.

I do null noms. If I push it, I can pull in nearly 75 mil an hour. Not counting loot.
Throw in loot and I am looking at maybe 125 an hour. But that doesn't count my loot/salvage time.
When I was in hi-sec. 3 toons (orca hulk cov) I could clear a 0.5 belt in like 3 hours. For a value of like 250 mil. And that was 6 months after starting EVE when trit was 3-4 isk.
I have null mined with full Rorq boost and I think my best rate was 60 mil.

The biggest issue with EVE is the rate of income in the different forms of play and there related sec status.
L4 mission runs are for LP. Null noms are for bounties. Relic/data are for loot. Incursions and FW are bounties/LP

I can't point a finger at what I feel is the root of the issue, b/c my opinion of the root issue isn't probably the same as anyone else's.

I do wanna say the CCP needs to review their mechanics and say - players should be making so much isk per/hour. How do are current mechanics fit in around that goal. i.e. Goal is say 50 mil. Rescale bounties/LP gain. Possible loot. So that one day I might get lucky and make 75 mil an hour for 4 hours but the next day the loot fairy poops on me and I get a lack luster 25 mil.

Sorry I think. Just tired of the continues inflation in this game and crying. (Looks in the mirror).
For now I will stick to my null ratting. At least I know I will make isk that way.

I have to agree, mining needs a significant revamp for the isk/hour.

In null sec there is little reason to mine when you can rat, run an 8/10 and bring in 250m, buy your minerals and still be in front.

I understand that increasing the mineral yield may be a problem, so have mining provide an isk reward based on volume mined.

There may be a special ore dropped at the core of every asteroid which cannot be refined and like a rat kill is recognised by Concord and isk is automatically paid. That way mining can be comparable to ratting instead of it being the poor child of the PVE children.