Wormholes

Just because Eve is different from other MMOs doesn't mean you get to say "You guys have to adapt to the game being how I want it"

There is a balance to be found and making it impossible for the defending party to get information is not that balance.

Not every wormhole corp has (or wants) dreads.

In our classes of wormholes (c1-c4), the fight is over before someone could even log in. The sole exception was when I lost my orca on a wormhole. I have never brought an orca back into WH space, so that is unlikely to occur again.

For higher end groups, using siege/bastion mode, the delay appears unnecessary.

Good grief this does not promote pvp.

There are better ways.

No delay, no sneaky hole, you want to promote more pvp, make more routes.

You could generate 200 holes, it won't make people fight in the end. You start sieging, they pack up and leave. Damage... Done?

I've been saying this before, wormholes have to matter. Currently they are being farmed just like any instanced dungeon in any other game. Ccp's solution to stop that... Secret gank hole? This does not require argument of debate, as anybody with even 5 cents worth of common sense sees that this is a completely game wrecking and BAD idea. It does not fix or enhance anything....

It was apparently brought up before, shot down with resounding applause.. And it's still here now with the greater support of current and former csm?

Some people have lost touch with the community they were once apart of.

Fozzie, also consider why it's so hard to find a wormhole on SiSi.

No delays on sigs.

Wormhole life has plenty of issues as is. Many aspects need work, such as pos for just one. please work on something that need done.

As a minor point, most of eve requires time, patience, even some work. It gets darn old to keep hearing the PvP crowd crying and whining that its to hard, requires to much time, to much effort, etc. There is no reason they should be able to jump into a wormhole, and insta warp to sites that now require no probing to attack site runners and miners with no effort from the PvP toon. The wormhole dwellers have usally invested effort and time into their wormhole occupation. The least the PvP toons can do is put a little work into attacking a mining ship or a PVE fit site runner.

Haven't read through all the thread yet but this was my first thoughts on this-

The old system favored the 'home' guys too much. Keep on D-scan and watch for probes meant the attackers were usually at a disadvantage. You could be caught, but you had a good window to see it coming and gtfo. If you got caught you were just lazy on D-scan.

The new system will favor the attackers too much. Just like the old system did the 'owners'. Lets assume the sig cant be seen for 2 minutes in the new system. 2 minutes is plenty enough time for a roam to D-Scan down what anom you are at and get the attack in motion. By the time the site runner even knows something is happening its too late. He hasn't really done anything wrong on his end. But he has no tools to help defend himself against this*.

I'm not trying to advocate for a carebear approach. But to make the most out of the situation everyone needs to consider both sides of this. Neither side deserves to have an advantage handed to them just because.

*And "bring more friends" is not always the retort to this. Usually all that does is escalate the fight lol. You shouldn't have to rely on 3-4-5 other people to run a site in a C1-2 just to help deter attackers. Bringing friends to SURVIVE an attack is one thing, bringing friends because you can't even see the attack coming is another.


I can't see them keeping the new sig hidden for less than 60 seconds. Anything less would just about defeat the point of it. But anything longer gives a big boost to the attackers too. I'm just in favor of a fair system. You catch me, you win. You mess up, I win.

We're talking about different times here.
The defender knows about the incoming K162 at my warp initialisation + however long it takes the discovery scanner to refresh itself/manually be refreshed. This can be as short as a second or as long as however long the auto refresh rate on the discovery scanner window is.
The attacker doesn't get any info from the new wh until he's aligned, warped to it, flown up to it, jumped, loaded the new system and clicked dscan. If it's a short warp, he's in a fast boat and he lands on top of the wh that can be a short time, 10-20 seconds. If the WH is the other end of the system, if he's in a fat scan boat like an Armour T3, if the cosmic anomaly is far off the WH entity itself it can be double or even longer than that.

This is why I'm in favour of a short delay (or a proper fix via WH spawning on gridland) it equals up both sides.

I can see this being the only agreeable change, it makes sense. I think people need to be careful when they use the term delay. Some people are thinking of a 5 minute black out period or a 5 minute Probe scan delay, which is completely insane.

I think, if a change has to be made, the spawn of a new WH connection once you arrive on grid, is the only agreeable change CCP should consider.

Hello,

My name is Baby Dady, I am a bad person, I am bad at EVE.

I gank people in Wormholes. That is my sole activity in this game. I fly solo in c1-c4 wormholes blowing up PI Haulers, Site Runners, and Miners. All I do is gank people doing PVE in Wormhole space. Since the change proposed in the OP falls directly into what I do, I will contribute to the discussion.

Initially this looks like a great idea, but upon further deep thought this has to be the worst idea since ‘wormhole stabilizers’. This will drive all small groups from doing PVE in Wormhole space entirely. CCP just announced the best incentive for new small groups to move into w-space that I have heard recently, with the ore compression module thingy. This will completely offset that and de-incentivize any small new group from wanting to go into W-space entirely.

I do not have the perspective to comment on how this would impact C5/C6 Capital Escalation bears or their hunters, but it would turn low class systems into barren deserts of endless empty systems.

This change would give me (the bad person who is bad at eve and only shoots defenseless ships) a significant advantage.

I whole heartedly agree that there are issues that need to be addressed. But this change alone is not the solution. There are a few good ideas already out there such as duel statics in C4’s, fixing Black Holes, and fixing POS’s. I would suggest we start there.

Praise BOB!


BD

Ps. glad to see devs looking at w-space, just don’t eff it up!

I dont like the Idea of an arbitrary onesided delay at all. Sorry. Its just not helping with anything...
If a gank wants to be successfull atm the attacker has to be fast and coordinated and the defender has to make a mistake. Which i think is balanced cuz if both partys bring their "A-game" the result can be a standoff..thats ok.
Giving one side an un-counterable advantage and free risk-choice (roll it if u dont like it before it spawns for the locals) is just not good game-design to me. It will drive smaller pve - groups (aka targets!) out of W-space at all.

When reading through the thread i must say i want to give Mrynnas idea a second thought...that loot-trap-mechanic doesnt sound un-interesting... but i can see devils hiding in the details there.

But the key issue we all know is true, is that there are not enuff pvp-targets in W-space. SO if we get more ppl from k-space to travel to w-space in their roaming pvp-fleets wh-dudes have less save farming and more things to shoot at.

That made me wonder what would happen if there was a delay in the appearance in local if you jump OUT of w-space for like 1min. And not only for 0.0 but for ALL of k-space. That ofc would affect therefor ALL spaces:

Highsec: Wars would actually become a more interesting face. ppl could hide their forces in w-holes, which would give them an advantage on their enemy by adding more risk to their tactic, cuz they are now also a w-space-target.

Lowsec: Pretty much the same thing, but i can see a lot of small gangs and FW-dudes make use of this delay. Knowledge of ur local area (exploring all the holes in space) gives the local pirat-gang advantage over the traveling roaming-fleet.

Nullsec: Renters or afk-ratters or bots might cry, which is probably not a bad thing. It might hit the ability of large nulsec-blocs to farm up their war-assets (aka wreccking balls) as fast.

In the end it would reward the k-spacer everywhere to actually scan the system he is in for w-holes. Either to be safe or to make others unsafe. Anyway...W-space gets a USE and a BENEFIT for everybody in the game and its not longer viable for k-spacers to ignor ike 1/3 of the games space. w-spacers would not bee as lonely and become more of a target as well as getting more targets and opportunities. I see a win-win-win-win situation there :D

Just give it a thought ...maybe.