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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1021 - 2014-03-21 20:33:55 UTC
https://gist.github.com/fuzzysteve/9695750

A breakdown of refineries by security status.

Vast majority are 50% stations.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1022 - 2014-03-21 20:35:18 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
let's stick to the facts here. undocking a ratter in 0.0 is much more dangerous as anything that can catch you, will probably kill you and not just for your shiny purple modules.


Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods. Protecting yourself in 0.0 isn't difficult. Especially when you are talking about playing deep in your own space. All the same tools as HS, plus bubbles, cynos and the ability to shoot first.

You are only limited to what you are willing to lose. Anywhere in EVE. Game mechanics have nothing to do with personal risk aversion.

no amount of precaution will help you against an interceptor coming out of a wormhole, whereas just keeping your mission ship reasonably cheap and not being a ****** will keep you 100% safe in hisec for all practical purposes.

I should buy an Ishtar.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1023 - 2014-03-21 20:35:31 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

no need to, as you will not.


But we do. You can look up the LP rewards, you can easily find all of the mission guides we use to know exactly what to shoot or do to finish a 30 min mission in under 5 min.

You simply do not run missions effectively or know how to.
Mario Putzo
#1024 - 2014-03-21 20:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:


You are only limited by what you are afraid to lose. My Battleship is just as vulnerable to a gank in HS or LS mission as you are in NS. You can pretend it isn't but we all know if you want to ganl something in HS you can gank it at reasonable cost. But lets keep pretending its about "risk"

You fly weaker ships and absorb less income because you choose to, not because mechanics force you to.


I have no fear of using battleships in null. I am not however, going to stupidly throw them away to interceptors scouting for blops. Ishtars are the better option as fast worp times means more isk, the no ammo means more isk and they are easy to use.


Then don't complain that anoms aren't making you as much isk as level 4's if you are unwilling to do what is needed. This is no different then people complaining about isk reductions in missions because they won't put the money on the line to be able to blitz them.

Its not mechanics that reduce your isk in 0.0, its your choices. 0.0 makes more isk than HS in every single way already. It always has. You would think with 3/4 of NS Blue you would have realized this.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1025 - 2014-03-21 20:37:07 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods.


You're absolutely right - there are both game mechanics and EULA provisions that prevent highsec players from paying attention to what's going on around them, watching local, setting standings, creating their own intel channels and using dscan. Roll

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mario Putzo
#1026 - 2014-03-21 20:39:13 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods.


You're absolutely right - there are both game mechanics and EULA provisions that prevent highsec players from paying attention to what's going on around them, watching local, setting standings, creating their own intel channels and using dscan. Roll


If you can't secure the space you are in, then you don't deserve the space and should live in HS.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1027 - 2014-03-21 20:39:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

no need to, as you will not.


But we do. You can look up the LP rewards, you can easily find all of the mission guides we use to know exactly what to shoot or do to finish a 30 min mission in under 5 min.

You simply do not run missions effectively or know how to.

believe me, i know all about the rewards and triggers. i also know that the triggers in the blockade are random to some degree and that assuming a LP exchange rate higher than 3k is ingenuous, especially with the amounts you will have to turn over. a realistic time would be around 10 minutes and a realistic ratio (after dealing with hauling tags, updating orders etc.) is somewhere around 2.4k, unless you are willing to let your isk rot for weeks.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Alcorak
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1028 - 2014-03-21 20:40:17 UTC
Can you also add 8 turret slots and some extra PG/CPU to the Noctis so we can fleet whelp them properly?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1029 - 2014-03-21 20:40:29 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


Then don't complain that anoms aren't making you as much isk as level 4's if you are unwilling to do what is needed.


Not even a vindicator in anoms can beat level 4 income.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1030 - 2014-03-21 20:40:44 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods.


You're absolutely right - there are both game mechanics and EULA provisions that prevent highsec players from paying attention to what's going on around them, watching local, setting standings, creating their own intel channels and using dscan. Roll


If you can't secure the space you are in, then you don't deserve the space and should live in HS.


What does that have to do with the range of precautions that are available to highsec players?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1031 - 2014-03-21 20:42:26 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods.


You're absolutely right - there are both game mechanics and EULA provisions that prevent highsec players from paying attention to what's going on around them, watching local, setting standings, creating their own intel channels and using dscan. Roll


If you can't secure the space you are in, then you don't deserve the space and should live in HS.

You keep drawing parallels to nullsec being this perfectly safe bastion of plenty, a situation that you yourself admit is only possible when all actors are rational and operating with perfect attention and perfect knowledge of all game mechanics, including metagame mechanics such as awoxing, and then, in the VERY SAME BREATH, refuse to apply the same standards to highsec. All the weird, one-off vignettes you keep proposing are equally valid in highsec, yet for some reason they don't apply in your head. Why is that?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1032 - 2014-03-21 20:45:26 UTC
Orion Satar wrote:
One thing that I didn't see getting mentioned regarding the reprocessing arrays. Will we be able to overfill the arrays by reprocesing?

From what I've seen, after the patch, the reprocessing arrays will have 2,000,000m3 of cargo space. Compressed Veldspar, for example, will have a volume of 257m3 and contain 690,500 units of Tritanium (6905 m3). With the intensive array, I'll get ~78% yield on that so 538,590 units or 5385.9m3. This means a full array with 7,782 blocks of compressed veldspar (1,999,974m3) will reprocess to 4,191,307,380 units of trit, or over 40 million m3.

You're able to overflow any other array, don't see why they'd special-case this.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mario Putzo
#1033 - 2014-03-21 20:45:48 UTC
Querns wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except you can take more precautions in protecting yourself in 0.0. Where as those who mission in HS are limited to knowing that after they die concord will bounce some dudes into their pods.


You're absolutely right - there are both game mechanics and EULA provisions that prevent highsec players from paying attention to what's going on around them, watching local, setting standings, creating their own intel channels and using dscan. Roll


If you can't secure the space you are in, then you don't deserve the space and should live in HS.

You keep drawing parallels to nullsec being this perfectly safe bastion of plenty, a situation that you yourself admit is only possible when all actors are rational and operating with perfect attention and perfect knowledge of all game mechanics, including metagame mechanics such as awoxing, and then, in the VERY SAME BREATH, refuse to apply the same standards to highsec. All the weird, one-off vignettes you keep proposing are equally valid in highsec, yet for some reason they don't apply in your head. Why is that?


I hold HS to the same standards, not sure where you got that from. Frankly I would like to see engagement rules redacted in HS and make it even more competitive, but I am sure the whine from then would be equally as large as the whine of the phantom inequality from you Nullbears.

Fact is though there are more safety measures available in NS. Whether you wish to employ them or not, is again. Your choice.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1034 - 2014-03-21 20:46:36 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
You are only limited by what you are afraid to lose. My Battleship is just as vulnerable to a gank in HS or LS mission as you are in NS.

nope

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1035 - 2014-03-21 20:46:42 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

Fact is though there are more safety measures available in NS.


This is not the case. Where is CONCORD in nullsec, for example?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1036 - 2014-03-21 20:47:27 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

believe me, i know all about the rewards and triggers. i also know that the triggers in the blockade are random to some degree and that assuming a LP exchange rate higher than 3k is ingenuous, especially with the amounts you will have to turn over. a realistic time would be around 10 minutes and a realistic ratio (after dealing with hauling tags, updating orders etc.) is somewhere around 2.4k, unless you are willing to let your isk rot for weeks.


The triggers in the blockade are not random.

Realistic time is indeed 5 min

I leave my LP sitting for 1-2 weeks or longer depending on what the markets are doing and make my trips in a 14au/sec blockade runner.
Mario Putzo
#1037 - 2014-03-21 20:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Querns wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

Fact is though there are more safety measures available in NS.


This is not the case. Where is CONCORD in nullsec, for example?


Concord doesn't give me any safety, they dish out punishment for people who break the law. Are you unsure how the system works? They are as effective as having 20 dudes sitting in local with you. Maybe the issue you have is to much space and not enough people actually using it, except your 20 friends are allowed to shoot first.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1038 - 2014-03-21 20:50:55 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

Fact is though there are more safety measures available in NS.


This is not the case. Where is CONCORD in nullsec, for example?


Concord doesn't give me any safety, they dish out punishment for people who break the law. Are you unsure how the system works? They are as effective as having 20 dudes sitting in local with you. Maybe the issue you have is to much space and not enough people actually using it, except your 20 friends are allowed to shoot first.

Nope. CONCORD has perfect response time, never goes to sleep, can neutralize enemies, and destroy them without fail. It's not even comparable.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1039 - 2014-03-21 20:51:11 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

Concord doesn't give me any safety, they dish out punishment for people who break the law. Are you unsure how the system works?

wrong

concord, through its timer, is a protection mechanism: given my ehp, i am absolutely invulnerable to ganks with dps lower than is required to kill me within that time

any ganker would have known that, and known that concord protects victims and gives them a level of safety. it's just not perfect safety, but your posting indicates you have trouble grasping the distinction between more safe and less safe and can only really grasp "can die" and "cannot die"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1040 - 2014-03-21 20:52:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

believe me, i know all about the rewards and triggers. i also know that the triggers in the blockade are random to some degree and that assuming a LP exchange rate higher than 3k is ingenuous, especially with the amounts you will have to turn over. a realistic time would be around 10 minutes and a realistic ratio (after dealing with hauling tags, updating orders etc.) is somewhere around 2.4k, unless you are willing to let your isk rot for weeks.


The triggers in the blockade are not random.

Realistic time is indeed 5 min

I leave my LP sitting for 1-2 weeks or longer depending on what the markets are doing and make my trips in a 14au/sec blockade runner.

i'm not sure which version of blockade you are running, but the one i run regularly has several of the same ship hull and one of them is the trigger. you seem to assume that you are the only one smart enough to run missions efficiently (including stocking up LP and using blockade runners) when in fact there are a lot of people who do it. listen and maybe you will also learn a thing or two.

I should buy an Ishtar.