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another question



where is the 14.4% comes from?
Ytterbium just use the number of maximun yield at a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost (86.8%), minus the maximum yield before (72.4%) ? 86.8-72.4 = 14.4

but the actual change is (86.8-72.4)/72.4 = 20 %

or do i miss something?

As a person that uses Pro Synergy's services, this is a kick in the pants.

Correct me if I'm wrong:

After the change, (regular) cap builders ideally would build in upgraded outposts to get the best rates from the compressed ores. They will face serious competition for the few build slots for the numerous and long running jobs. The alternative will be to have a POS in the same system for component building, which burns fuel and adds risk.

Cap builders without access to upgraded outposts have the additional handicap of worse reprocess rates, which considering the activity typically has <10% margin is a quite significant loss.

The ease of compressing via Rails in Jita is lost. You'll either need to buy pre-compressed ores and lose profits on it, or you need to run your own compression POS, which adds another cost and risk factor and a huge timesink for the many freighter trips you'll need to do out of Jita.

Purely from the profitability point of view this should balance out neutrally as it affects all cap builders, as long as you increase the effort put in. As CCP has noted: "Making something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it".

If you think favoritism calls are silly then I think you are ignoring basic psychological premises as well as the most basic of business concepts.

You can say that these common business interests are a good thing that's a subjective call and you are entitled to your opinion.

You can say that giving freebies to friends is a termination event but that does not prevent it from happening it just means if you get caught you'll likely get fired.

I will say it once again what I'm saying here is not that cheating or breaking the rules has happened. What I am saying is that is it likely the rules are being changed in a manner that is swayed heavily by a cozy and mutually beneficial business interest that exists between CCP and a small number of players that conduct large scale sov warfare. I further am stating my opinion that if they continue down the road of trying to make ass ponies of 90% of the players so that 5% of them can make headlines then I think they will loose a lot of engaging game play and likely much of the player base with it.

We can disagree on opinion's here but what is established fact is that favoritism has happened repeatedly in the past and to varying degrees.

Let me give you one correlation here. If you catch your wife in bed with the mail man and she swears it will never happen again. Says she reported the mail man so he'd get fired and never have your route again. So then you say well she'd be stupid to do it again after having been caught once. After it happens 3 or 4 times you'd be the one who looked foolish when your neighbor says dude I think your wife is screwing the mail man and you said no way she is. I've caught her half a dozen times already she'd have to be an idiot to do it again.

But once again I am taken off topic because again I am not saying cheating or rule breaking has occurred. I'm not saying that it will occur here. I'm saying there is a common business interest that exists and if followed through on will lead to less rewarding game play for the majority of the player base.

References to extreme scandals in the past are only to indicate that this is not a crazy theory that is out of the question. So please stop accusing me of stating that one employee and CCP gave free **** to a "bestie" when I never indicated any such thing.

If there are common interests a conspiracy is not called a conspiracy it's called good business.

If you can't see a mutually beneficial business relationship leading to favoritism then I think you are the one being not only silly but naive.

How I read this post.


I.......am uncertain how I feel about CCP throwing wenches into the gears of nullsec industry.

I....think I'm against it?

Now that POS's are worthwhile to actually use for refining, please please PLEASE fix it so that alliance members can actually use a POS's modules!

So, i take the 10-15 min to write a reply and when i press post it only posts the Quote.

Results of the nerf to non-ice/ore refinement efficiency and/or to below that of ice/ore refinement:

-Looters will no longer bring in modules valued only for refinement.

-A categoric and universal reduction in the mineral value (base value) of ALL non-ore/ice refinement items, from modules to ships.
(This one cannot be overstated. ALL non-ice/ore refinement items in the game will have their base value reduced by this change. Though production costs are not directly affected, the value of those commodities post production is reduced, as a factor of the reduced profit from refining them back into minerals. So this affects not only game generated modules from loot, but also player produced refinable commodities.)

-Death of the non-ore/ice refining profession, for the two stacking reasons outlined above. Lack of materials brought to market for refinement AND the reduced value of every single on of those items in refinement mineral outcome.

-Further excacerbated by the fact that instead of skilling for non-ice/ore refinement into an market devoid of refinable items and all at reduced value, the dame time can be spent to skill into ice/ore refinement instead, for which the market will provide plenty of unrefined materials and of which there is likely to be an net increase of in volume.

What is the reason/justification that is beneficial to the game, for causing the above?

The Dev Blog does not provide one either directly or by implication.

Infact it tries to claim that this will encourage the non-ice/ore refining profession for skilling, which is unfortunately completely false for the reasons I have demonstrated above. It infact does the exact opposite of what they propose, and kills that niche profession which already today is a very tight margin business.

WHY is this change being made?

Can a Dev elaborate on the justification for this specific change please?

slight changes can make huge differences in happiness. case in point: free climbing.

I don't take it as a troll at all, mate. Of course, I'm also replying so late that the chance of you seeing this is probably minimal.

Yeah, skill trains for doctrines are a bastard. As someone else said, I always seem to get into a specific ship within a week (plus or minus) of the time when that doctrine is retired. And as another commenter noted, my end solution was to just train all of the logistics skills to 5, so that I have a role in every fleet.

One key point of clarification, though. Theses aren't Rank 1 skills. The high sec ores are all Rank 1. So you can get from 4 to 5 for Veldspar, Scordite, etc. in just a month or so. But Arkonor, Bistot, and Crokite are Rank 4, and Ice and Mercoxite are Rank 5. That's where the days really start to add up, amounting to a 200 day train for the null sec refiner to move from 4 to 5.

I could pose an argument that perhaps these skills should be reduced to lower rank levels, so that they were more like T3 subsystems. But that would simply ignite more fury that CCP was bowing to null sec (especially since it would probably entail a reimbursement of skill points to those of us who had trained these skills already).