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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#541 - 2014-03-20 23:25:06 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:

I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.

but they gave you that, a 54% pos

the station would be strictly superior to anything but a fully upgraded amarr or minmatar outpost, something that costs 60b all told (~40b to upgrade from the base outpost) so that would actually be unbalanced

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#542 - 2014-03-20 23:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Krom Thomson wrote:

no i keep forgetting only anome runners can make money hell if an indy even though well go's i think i should make some isk from my product well thats just plain and simple unheard of


This may surprise you, but people who only run anoms all day instead of helping their alliance by PvPing are called RENTERS!

You can rent and then mine. You can rent and then run anoms. You can rent and then sing Turkish Opera in local.

You can join an alliance, PvP, then mine. You can join an alliance, PvP, then run anoms. You can join an alliance, PvP, then sing Turkish Opera in local.

Either way, you are paying with your time, in the form of PvP, or in isk, or in minerals.

But living in nullsec has a price, and the price is time spent helping you alliance, one way or another.

You are entitled to NOTHING.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#543 - 2014-03-20 23:25:37 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
asking for what we get with stations that can be taken away from us would be unfair as you'd be getting the same reward without any of the risk

I'm not asking for what you get, I am simply asking for a modicum of benefit over high sec stations. And conducting industry in the back ends of low sec or npc null is not without risk.

An upcoming industrial overlord needs somewhere to start, and we cannot all jump straight into null sec with a fully upgraded minmatar outpost.

I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.

55% is too much. It impugns on nullsec upgrades and pos refineries.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
talonmaster77
Gemini Anguium Ouroboros
#544 - 2014-03-20 23:29:05 UTC
So the idea is to make the economy jump everything in cost by 30% or to make all the indie players quit so nothing get's made at all. great plan.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#545 - 2014-03-20 23:32:00 UTC
talonmaster77 wrote:
So the idea is to make the economy jump everything in cost by 30% or to make all the indie players quit so nothing get's made at all. great plan.

Another sale of a high-quality silicone Jump To Conclusions mat goes to this fine post.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#546 - 2014-03-20 23:32:32 UTC
Minari Inocari wrote:
"Keep calm and carry on"

This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.

This change is not something I can support at all.

ya i'll feel sorry for you guys your a good group that helps new bro's a lot
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#547 - 2014-03-20 23:32:40 UTC
Querns wrote:
It looks like one thing that is going to have to stop here is this fascination with "perfect" refines. There is no longer the ability to refine perfectly. What remains is a system where you can train game skills to increase yield, and when that hits its cap, use social skills or PvP skills to get access to facilities to further increase your yield. No longer are capsuleers entitled to 100% refine yield in this brave new era.


Correct no one is entitled to 100% refines, but some people can get max refine if they are friendly.
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#548 - 2014-03-20 23:33:05 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Marcia en Welle wrote:

I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.

but they gave you that, a 54% pos

the station would be strictly superior to anything but a fully upgraded amarr or minmatar outpost, something that costs 60b all told (~40b to upgrade from the base outpost) so that would actually be unbalanced

Well a high sec station does 50% which matches all null sec outposts base rates.

Also using a POS for manufacturing is a massive pain. Imo they need to do something for the stations. Perhaps not a 55%, but at least some advantage over high sec, but not quite as good as null.

I would suggest something like this

high sec - 50%
reprocessing array - 52%
stations 0.4 and below - 53%
intensive reprocessing array - 54%
outpost full upgraded - 57%
minmatar outpost fully upgraded - 60%
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#549 - 2014-03-20 23:33:27 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:

So null pilots are going to take a far bigger hit in training time than those who live in empire space.


No troll, but I would think 0.0 duders would be pretty used to this sort of skill regimen with all the varied fleet doctrines that come and go. Boots no Baltecs oh wait now OmegaFleet Nags oh don't forget Talwar/Crow fleets better make time for Maestroms etc etc.

Besides, we're looking at, what, Rank 1 skills? Really? Just pretend you're training T3 subs if that'll make it go down easier.
Beofryn Sedorak
#550 - 2014-03-20 23:35:10 UTC
Minari Inocari wrote:
"Keep calm and carry on"

This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.

This change is not something I can support at all.


Empires rise, And empires fall, Some even burn to the ground. It's the natural order of things. Adapt or die.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#551 - 2014-03-20 23:37:05 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:

So null pilots are going to take a far bigger hit in training time than those who live in empire space.


No troll, but I would think 0.0 duders would be pretty used to this sort of skill regimen with all the varied fleet doctrines that come and go. Boots no Baltecs oh wait now OmegaFleet Nags oh don't forget Talwar/Crow fleets better make time for Maestroms etc etc.

Besides, we're looking at, what, Rank 1 skills? Really? Just pretend you're training T3 subs if that'll make it go down easier.


It's the circle of life. Just keep training for what the current doctrine is, getting cut off before you finish it, rinse repeat.

Eventually, it might be a month, six months, a year, three years, but the doctrine you half trained for will come back, and you will be ready.

Remember Hellcat abbadons? Amarr BS V and t2 LG lasers. It took a hell of a long time to come back, but Apocs needing the same skills are now a thing.

Circle of life :)
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#552 - 2014-03-20 23:37:08 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Krom Thomson wrote:

no i keep forgetting only anome runners can make money hell if an indy even though well go's i think i should make some isk from my product well thats just plain and simple unheard of


This may surprise you, but people who only run anoms all day instead of helping their alliance by PvPing are called RENTERS!

You can rent and then mine. You can rent and then run anoms. You can rent and then sing Turkish Opera in local.

You can join an alliance, PvP, then mine. You can join an alliance, PvP, then run anoms. You can join an alliance, PvP, then sing Turkish Opera in local.

Either way, you are paying with your time, in the form of PvP, or in isk, or in minerals.

But living in nullsec has a price, and the price is time spent helping you alliance, one way or another.

You are entitled to NOTHING.


minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#553 - 2014-03-20 23:39:35 UTC
Krom Thomson wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Krom Thomson wrote:

no i keep forgetting only anome runners can make money hell if an indy even though well go's i think i should make some isk from my product well thats just plain and simple unheard of


This may surprise you, but people who only run anoms all day instead of helping their alliance by PvPing are called RENTERS!

You can rent and then mine. You can rent and then run anoms. You can rent and then sing Turkish Opera in local.

You can join an alliance, PvP, then mine. You can join an alliance, PvP, then run anoms. You can join an alliance, PvP, then sing Turkish Opera in local.

Either way, you are paying with your time, in the form of PvP, or in isk, or in minerals.

But living in nullsec has a price, and the price is time spent helping you alliance, one way or another.

You are entitled to NOTHING.


minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions

I gotta say, having lived in the land of milk and honey for so long, it's adorable that this sort of thing is even possible in The Year Of Our Lord 2014.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#554 - 2014-03-20 23:41:16 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:

So null pilots are going to take a far bigger hit in training time than those who live in empire space.


No troll, but I would think 0.0 duders would be pretty used to this sort of skill regimen with all the varied fleet doctrines that come and go. Boots no Baltecs oh wait now OmegaFleet Nags oh don't forget Talwar/Crow fleets better make time for Maestroms etc etc.

Besides, we're looking at, what, Rank 1 skills? Really? Just pretend you're training T3 subs if that'll make it go down easier.


4s for the Null sec ores (5 for Mercoxit) 3 for low, 2 or 1 for high.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#555 - 2014-03-20 23:41:53 UTC
I have real reservations about these changes.

For me personally they mean little, other than that I will likely lose the ~0.8% of my wealth tied up in mineral compression related BPOs. Not fussed about that at all, I might be able to unload them to a sucker, and even if I can't, the loss is easily absorbed and expected.

My concerns are for the very, very new player.

These changes will reduce the value of a good 80% of mission loot to around half of what it is now (as reprocessing determines the value of 'bad' modules), reducing the income of the majority of newbs.

Newbs having less income makes them more risk averse, as when a cruiser loss represents a 4 hour setback rather than a 3 hour setback, they are more careful with their cruisers.

Being more risk averse pushes more newbs into the solo carebear lifestyle rather than the 'ah screw it, let's lose some ships in PVP' lifestyle. And we know the latter type of player is more likely to continue playing.


My suggested changes:

- Reduce tech 1 frigate and cruiser build costs to address this issue. (Not destroyers - as much as I'd love cheaper destroyers as a ganker, dessies are not overly good ships for new players and they get given them for tutorials anyway so they don't buy many on the market).
- Then keep the rest of the changes as is. They are overall good changes that make refining and mining in sovereign nullsec more viable than at present.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#556 - 2014-03-20 23:42:21 UTC
Krom Thomson wrote:

minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions


Tell me Krom. As a nullsec miner living in the space of an alliance that protects you so that you don't have to protect yourself, which one of these is an appropriate price for Trit?

A: Jita price.

B: Above Jita price

C: Below Jita price


If A: We don't need you because we can do that via compression and JF with minimal costs, in much higher volume, on demand.

If B: **** off, we REALLY don't need you because we can import it at Jita price.

If C: Are you seriously saying there are miners willing to come to nullsec, mine Tritanium, then get paid less for it than highsec miners get paid for less effort? Well come on in. We'd love tons of trit at 75% of Jita price.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#557 - 2014-03-20 23:42:32 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:

So null pilots are going to take a far bigger hit in training time than those who live in empire space.


No troll, but I would think 0.0 duders would be pretty used to this sort of skill regimen with all the varied fleet doctrines that come and go. Boots no Baltecs oh wait now OmegaFleet Nags oh don't forget Talwar/Crow fleets better make time for Maestroms etc etc.

Besides, we're looking at, what, Rank 1 skills? Really? Just pretend you're training T3 subs if that'll make it go down easier.


It's the circle of life. Just keep training for what the current doctrine is, getting cut off before you finish it, rinse repeat.

Eventually, it might be a month, six months, a year, three years, but the doctrine you half trained for will come back, and you will be ready.

Remember Hellcat abbadons? Amarr BS V and t2 LG lasers. It took a hell of a long time to come back, but Apocs needing the same skills are now a thing.

Circle of life :)


i just went logi when i lived in null everyone loves logi :P
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#558 - 2014-03-20 23:48:49 UTC
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Minari Inocari wrote:
"Keep calm and carry on"

This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.

This change is not something I can support at all.


Empires rise, And empires fall, Some even burn to the ground. It's the natural order of things. Adapt or die.

in other exciting news, we will remove spaceships from EVE. adapt or die.

I should buy an Ishtar.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#559 - 2014-03-20 23:50:23 UTC
Knew I should have sold my Rorqual alt a while back instead of training it up more... sigh.Sad
Beofryn Sedorak
#560 - 2014-03-20 23:50:42 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Minari Inocari wrote:
"Keep calm and carry on"

This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.

This change is not something I can support at all.


Empires rise, And empires fall, Some even burn to the ground. It's the natural order of things. Adapt or die.

in other exciting news, we will remove spaceships from EVE. adapt or die.


Does that mean it's time for walking in stations? :D