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[Rubicon 1.1] Rapid Missile Update

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Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#361 - 2014-01-29 06:53:51 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted

I'd settle for a instantaneous ammo swap that simply replaces the current capacity with a new type. So if you're down to 5 missiles and you do an ammo swap, you only end up with 5 missiles of the new type. Crazy, I know... Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#362 - 2014-01-29 09:23:12 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted



and that would mean they would need to be forbidden in high sec.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2014-01-29 09:32:02 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted



and that would mean they would need to be forbidden in high sec.


I think missiles doing aoe damage while doing less damage to one target would make the weapon system truly interesting and a great alternative to turrets. In fleet battles, it would encourage good positioning and maneuvering bringing another skill based dimension to fleet pvp.

It would mean that in skirmishes guns would be the order of the day but as fleet sizes grew it would be more advantageous to bring missile batteries.

The addition of chaff launchers etc could give defenders the opportunity to deflect the aoe damage by causing early detonation.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#364 - 2014-01-29 10:30:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted



and that would mean they would need to be forbidden in high sec.


those arent usefull in hs anyways so not much of a loss there Roll
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#365 - 2014-01-29 12:43:31 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
It seems the changes posted here didn't make it into the patch notes for some reason but they will still be going into the patch. Sorry for any confusion.

Checked the patch notes today. Still missing these changes in the changes section.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2014-01-29 12:44:33 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted



and that would mean they would need to be forbidden in high sec.


those arent usefull in hs anyways so not much of a loss there Roll


I don't see why hi sec players should not suffer "collateral damage" if they hang around gawping at someone else's legitimate fight.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#367 - 2014-01-29 12:50:25 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
ok since were again on the strange ideas train i propose we make rapid launchers keep their stats as they are but add an aoe shock missle specialy for those just like the old torpedoes - usefullness factor 5 fun factor over 100 Twisted



and that would mean they would need to be forbidden in high sec.


I think missiles doing aoe damage while doing less damage to one target would make the weapon system truly interesting and a great alternative to turrets. In fleet battles, it would encourage good positioning and maneuvering bringing another skill based dimension to fleet pvp.

It would mean that in skirmishes guns would be the order of the day but as fleet sizes grew it would be more advantageous to bring missile batteries.

The addition of chaff launchers etc could give defenders the opportunity to deflect the aoe damage by causing early detonation.



CCP nerfed missiles because they were causing lag in fleet fights. Now they nerfed drones by crushing the omni tracking links because drones were causing lag in fleet fights. Pretty soon what we will have left is shooting fireworks from festival launchers at each other while we call each other names on comms.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2014-01-29 12:54:39 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


CCP nerfed missiles because they were causing lag in fleet fights. Now they nerfed drones by crushing the omni tracking links because drones were causing lag in fleet fights. Pretty soon what we will have left is shooting fireworks from festival launchers at each other while we call each other names on comms.


Lag is cured by coding parallelism into the Eve server code.

Name-calling is the primary purpose of PVP isn't it? I always know I've won when some angry Russian kid calls into question whether I was born to a human mother after all...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#369 - 2014-01-29 12:58:46 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


CCP nerfed missiles because they were causing lag in fleet fights. Now they nerfed drones by crushing the omni tracking links because drones were causing lag in fleet fights. Pretty soon what we will have left is shooting fireworks from festival launchers at each other while we call each other names on comms.


Lag is cured by coding parallelism into the Eve server code.

Name-calling is the primary purpose of PVP isn't it? I always know I've won when some angry Russian kid calls into question whether I was born to a human mother after all...


I agree with you, but I'm also a realist. CCP will never touch/rewrite the Eve legacy code.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2014-01-29 13:32:31 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


I agree with you, but I'm also a realist. CCP will never touch/rewrite the Eve legacy code.


They may well be forced to if 4000-ship fights are to become the norm. It only takes 1 other MMO to do this and CCP lose their first-mover advantage overnight.

Remember how Google erased Yahoo overnight?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#371 - 2014-01-29 13:48:53 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


I agree with you, but I'm also a realist. CCP will never touch/rewrite the Eve legacy code.


They may well be forced to if 4000-ship fights are to become the norm. It only takes 1 other MMO to do this and CCP lose their first-mover advantage overnight.

Remember how Google erased Yahoo overnight?


I 100% agree with you, they should be dedicating 1, 2, 5 patch cycles to do this now - basically whatever it takes. I also think there is a 0% chance that they will.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#372 - 2014-01-29 14:25:41 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I always know I've won when some angry Russian kid calls into question whether I was born to a human mother after all...

Russian insults are always the best...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Maxor Swift
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-01-29 16:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxor Swift
There is no point going over the same old ground we did this already in the 200+ page thread.

Rise isn't man enough to admit he was wrong so we are left with 2 options train turrets or train drones and drones are getting Rises' special balancing wand next so only one option really, train turrets.

"What you talking about willis"
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#374 - 2014-01-29 16:54:22 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


CCP nerfed missiles because they were causing lag in fleet fights. Now they nerfed drones by crushing the omni tracking links because drones were causing lag in fleet fights. Pretty soon what we will have left is shooting fireworks from festival launchers at each other while we call each other names on comms.


Lag is cured by coding parallelism into the Eve server code.

Name-calling is the primary purpose of PVP isn't it? I always know I've won when some angry Russian kid calls into question whether I was born to a human mother after all...


I agree with you, but I'm also a realist. CCP will never touch/rewrite the Eve legacy code.


Its a shame they are hindering their own future development.
Missiles and drones lagging should not be much of problem. Its been said that they have the best servers money can buy, but they should have the best servers than can be built.

Also, I came across an article in pc mag. Here eve devs are quoted as saying " If something is hard to maintain, we'll normally opt against that route and go with the one that's maybe only 80% efficient but easier to maintain. Maybe this is proof why they nerf missiles and drones.

Let this be a note to all, writing a billion lines of code without knowing how certain groups of code effect certain parts of a program is dumbassetry at its finest. You cant keep piling new **** on top of old ****.

Also worth mentioning that they said in the rubicon deployment videos on youtube that they added an extra ~100+k servers to eve online if im not mistaken.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#375 - 2014-01-29 17:11:03 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


I agree with you, but I'm also a realist. CCP will never touch/rewrite the Eve legacy code.


They may well be forced to if 4000-ship fights are to become the norm. It only takes 1 other MMO to do this and CCP lose their first-mover advantage overnight.

Remember how Google erased Yahoo overnight?



If one of the big guys decides to make a similar space shooter that allows for bigger fights and adds aliens in the future ccp is in trouble.

Honestly I think eve has moved beyond ccp's capabilities. Which is why their "patches" and expansions are so..........limited. I mean come on its been over 10 years. While they made have maid certain advances in the field (and I applaud them) there are a lot of things that a larger would have improved on and added to by now. Eve certainly has the best graphic of any mmo of this size and much larger. But this game could and should be much larger. You should be able to do much more than simply walk around in your captains quarters............

Simply put, they don't have the personnel numbers nor the development time and cost to move this game along at at normal pace. 
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Kesthely
Mestana
#376 - 2014-01-29 17:44:48 UTC
I have to disagree,

Eve development is still pretty much an ongoing effort, as well as the effort against lag. The've been pretty much succesfull with lots of implementations to reduce the soulcrushing lag issues. Often with new innovateing ideas. TiDi for instance is in no other game, nor is the cross linking of different games and systems. Rewritteing or redoing eve 2, would take years, and multi millions in cash, in wich the endresult would probably be the same then when you keep updateing and rewriteing stuff that needs to be fixed. Computer upgrades, rendering scales, graphics improvements, new eve tactics, make it so that you can never have 0 lag. The fact that the servers are still running, when 4000 people do stuff in plain view of eachother simultaneus, is an epic feat of itself.

I don't agree with all the descissions CCP makes, Missiles beeing on the top of that list, But i do have enough faith in ccp to continue to do their best. If its rebalancing, fight against lag, new content development, user interface, customer support.

Although with missile rebalanceing, i do get a growing increase of "shoot the messenger syndrome" So said messenger(s), can you please post once in a while ?
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#377 - 2014-01-29 18:18:15 UTC
Here's an abstract idea for missiles… The biggest problem is the time to hit and that they don't apply instant damage. So why not turn them into the ultimate mid-range weapon system instead of trying to be the jack of all trades? Reduce flight time by 80%, increase missile velocity by 50% and tweak the damage application on heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#378 - 2014-01-29 18:45:13 UTC
I must agree with alot of people the 35second reload time, just immediately stops me even bothering with these. They are pretty unviable item in pvp or pve. They are gank tool and thats it. The normal reload time is painful enough as it is.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#379 - 2014-01-29 18:46:16 UTC
Kesthely wrote:
I have to disagree,

Eve development is still pretty much an ongoing effort, as well as the effort against lag. The've been pretty much succesfull with lots of implementations to reduce the soulcrushing lag issues. Often with new innovateing ideas. TiDi for instance is in no other game, nor is the cross linking of different games and systems. Rewritteing or redoing eve 2, would take years, and multi millions in cash, in wich the endresult would probably be the same then when you keep updateing and rewriteing stuff that needs to be fixed. Computer upgrades, rendering scales, graphics improvements, new eve tactics, make it so that you can never have 0 lag. The fact that the servers are still running, when 4000 people do stuff in plain view of eachother simultaneus, is an epic feat of itself.

I don't agree with all the descissions CCP makes, Missiles beeing on the top of that list, But i do have enough faith in ccp to continue to do their best. If its rebalancing, fight against lag, new content development, user interface, customer support.

Although with missile rebalanceing, i do get a growing increase of "shoot the messenger syndrome" So said messenger(s), can you please post once in a while ?



Lag is lag, regardless of what you call it. tidi is lag. slow motion lag, Granted unlike normal lag where everyone is popping up at different spot, but atleast your not playing a game for 5 hours only to have made the progress of5 minutes of normal time.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#380 - 2014-01-29 18:48:03 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's an abstract idea for missiles… The biggest problem is the time to hit and that they don't apply instant damage. So why not turn them into the ultimate mid-range weapon system instead of trying to be the jack of all trades? Reduce flight time by 80%, increase missile velocity by 50% and tweak the damage application on heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles.


Something like this, to reduce lag have them be on field for less time. Reminds me of the old missile defence system that could launch a missile to instance supersonic velocities.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!