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[Rubicon 1.1] Drone Shield Regen Speeds

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2014-01-17 14:45:08 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
But given the clear advantage to one side on these changes

What clear advantage? Maybe it's just because I haven't been as active in fleets recently, but I don't recall anybody using fighters or fighter-bombers. Certainly not extensively. And even if they were, the shield regen has such a minor effect in practice. If your fighters or fighter-bombers are going to die, they'll probably die with or without the regen.



Ther is an implication that your opponents have superiority on SuperCarriers and they are way more pront to use them. Not to bring up the validity or not of this statement here, but taking this premisse as true (and sicen most of eve takes as true, seems to be a good start) it hurts your enemies more than hurts you. CFC has subcapital superiority and on general notes the whoel set of changes makes supercapitals weaker while subcapitals stronger.

Your side has not used much SC, but your enemy has (more earlier in the war, less recently, but still clear disparity).

As I said, I do not believe its intetional of CCP to affect the war, but just stating that it will leave such impression.

They may use supercarriers, but they're not using them to deal damage to other ships.
They're either dealing damage to structures in the absence of enemy fleets, or they're providing logistics as part of the wrecking ball doctrine.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#102 - 2014-01-17 14:50:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.

First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.

So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#103 - 2014-01-17 14:55:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.

First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.

So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?


talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#104 - 2014-01-17 14:57:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


How about waiting on drone shield recharge rates till you can look at drones as a whole. The mechanics the modules and the drones themselves. Instead of butchering supercarriers even more. Because currently I have a 25 billion isk ship that able to have its dps removed by a single guy with a Isboxer. I don't know how to say it any other way other than that's bullshit.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#105 - 2014-01-17 15:33:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.

First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.

So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?


'Aliens' quote, FTW!!!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#106 - 2014-01-17 15:44:53 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.

First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.

So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?


talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries


And what about Gila, VNI, Proteus pilots who don't have the cap to operate an internal repper and an RR, who rely on pulling in drones. And the Omni nerf's wreck the optimal of Sentries, which wreck the effective DPS, which wrecks income.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-01-17 15:50:35 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Oh, and don't forget that little tidbit about hammering shield regen on Sentries, which when accompanying the quadruple nerf of Omnidirectionals, absolutely kills using Garde II's in a PvE situation.

First you wiped out the use of heavies in missions with that asinine and malicious change to the rat AI. You gloated and told people to "adapt". So we adapted to using sentries, and now you have killed those too.

So what do drone boat operators adapt to using now, harsh language?


talk about over the top ... if you rely on sentries shield regen to tank rats you're doing something wrong .... domi with multiple armour reps can keep sentries alive no problem ... and tracking isn't so much of an issue if you have a variety of drones available in your dronebay for close range rats .. the range is more important for sentries


And what about Gila, VNI, Proteus pilots who don't have the cap to operate an internal repper and an RR, who rely on pulling in drones. And the Omni nerf's wreck the optimal of Sentries, which wreck the effective DPS, which wrecks income.

There are these thing called cap booster.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sid Crash
#108 - 2014-01-17 15:50:41 UTC
Instead of nerfing sentries, why don't you solve the ACTUAL issue; Drone assist.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#109 - 2014-01-17 15:53:03 UTC
CCP has no idea what it's doing but goons cry so all good!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#110 - 2014-01-17 16:00:39 UTC
but I really LIKED seeing my sentry drone tank a guristas battleship.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#111 - 2014-01-17 16:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
how does the optimal get reduced here?
you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range

edit... you even get falloff bonus now too compensate for optimal loss whatever that figure is..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-01-17 16:48:53 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
how does the optimal get reduced here?
you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range

edit... you even get falloff bonus now too compensate for optimal loss whatever that figure is..

Yeah, you are mistaken. Omnis now boost 7.5% optimal, 15% falloff and 15% tracking, with the same scripts as a tracking computer. For a whopping .4gj/s

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#113 - 2014-01-17 16:55:42 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
how does the optimal get reduced here?
you are being forced to pick either optimal or tracking with the scripts.. so if you pick optimal you end up with the same range as before unless i am mistaken and bouncers will still have plenty of range anyway even if there is less range

edit... you even get falloff bonus now too compensate for optimal loss whatever that figure is..

Yeah, you are mistaken. Omnis now boost 7.5% optimal, 15% falloff and 15% tracking, with the same scripts as a tracking computer. For a whopping .4gj/s


well it is hard to understand what the current bonus actually is 1.25x multiplier means what in %?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-01-17 17:31:43 UTC
25%

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#115 - 2014-01-17 17:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
25%


ok so with script you get 15% op and 30% falloff

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#116 - 2014-01-17 17:49:30 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

How about waiting on drone shield recharge rates till you can look at drones as a whole. The mechanics the modules and the drones themselves. Instead of butchering supercarriers even more. Because currently I have a 25 billion isk ship that able to have its dps removed by a single guy with a Isboxer. I don't know how to say it any other way other than that's bullshit.

"a single guy with a isboxer" is a fairly deceptive way of saying "a number of people working in unison"

why, i could say that an entire wrecking ball fleet is nothing but a single guy with some zombie computers

and supercarriers were deliberately designed around being able to be defanged (hence the limited FB capacity) so that's working as intended

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2014-01-17 17:51:13 UTC
"i should be able to pay enough money to be immune to the little people"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#118 - 2014-01-17 18:08:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#119 - 2014-01-17 18:18:01 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff.


nm... change their drone bays into fighter bays instead

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2014-01-17 18:46:37 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff.

As worthwhile a discussion this is to have, the thread for this is coming. Most likely by 2015.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)