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ESS Discussion Thread

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E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#561 - 2014-01-17 21:32:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jon Feist wrote:
For every ESS module that is seen in Nullsec, a miner will be ganked.

You should start now and get ahead to avoid the rush.


No miners will die over this. Thats how terrible this idea is.

So I guess that’s part of what I am not getting. If this is Sooooo bad and no one will use it then why do so many people have their underooes in a twist? I think the FEAR comes from not knowing. With many things in Eve the full potential of items, ideas and changes is not realized until people have a chance to play with it and figure out how to meta it.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#562 - 2014-01-17 21:45:40 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jon Feist wrote:
For every ESS module that is seen in Nullsec, a miner will be ganked.

You should start now and get ahead to avoid the rush.


No miners will die over this. Thats how terrible this idea is.

So I guess that’s part of what I am not getting. If this is Sooooo bad and no one will use it then why do so many people have their underooes in a twist? I think the FEAR comes from not knowing. With many things in Eve the full potential of items, ideas and changes is not realized until people have a chance to play with it and figure out how to meta it.



The frustration comes from watching CCP turn an old mistake into a new one. They don't seem to have learned from the systems upgrade nerf that turned null BACK into the desert it was before system upgrades were introduced.

Oh Well, No skin off anyone's back (except renters who will watch their system's value plummet), theres FW lp farming, incursions, SOE and thukker missions and other things. But it's CCP going backwards, they shold be setting the ground for the people who want to go to null to live to want to go there, not to want to go do high sec incursions to afford ships for null.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#563 - 2014-01-17 22:00:39 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jon Feist wrote:
For every ESS module that is seen in Nullsec, a miner will be ganked.

You should start now and get ahead to avoid the rush.


No miners will die over this. Thats how terrible this idea is.

So I guess that’s part of what I am not getting. If this is Sooooo bad and no one will use it then why do so many people have their underooes in a twist? I think the FEAR comes from not knowing. With many things in Eve the full potential of items, ideas and changes is not realized until people have a chance to play with it and figure out how to meta it.


SIGHTED: -->> CCP Dev Alt! <<--
TARGET ACQUIRED.

POUNCE SEQUENCE INITIATED!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Desmond Strickler
#564 - 2014-01-17 22:02:21 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
Prie Mary wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Desmond Strickler wrote:
1. HTFU
2. Buy a incursion alt
3. ????
4. Profit


And that, right there, is the problem.


Quick raise the deflector shields, try and move CCP onto incursions - again. Threads about ESS not nerf incursions Lol


What I'm saying has nothing to do with nerfing incursions--it's pointing out that CCP has, by virtue of making nullsec worthless, made highsec incursion running (and FW frigate crap, and maybe L4s for those too desperate or stupid to do otherwise) about the only viable way to rat money. Which makes owning and maintaining a nullsec empire pretty stupid.


Well for alliances and coalitions, moon goo is by far the best passive isk in the game and I am sure someone is going to fight for them. Just because you have an incursion alt doesn't me nullsec is completely useless, it is still the best place to find fleet pew pew. Oh, and wh's are by far the best ratting isk Roll

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#565 - 2014-01-18 00:04:18 UTC
Desmond Strickler wrote:
The Black Prince of Wormholes a.k.a The Black Prince of The East
THE PRINCE OF THE EAST !

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Thead Enco
Domheimed
#566 - 2014-01-18 00:09:16 UTC
Thread Status:

29 pages later with no CCP comment, it's not like you guys are short of "Community Reps"
Haraukiae Youik
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#567 - 2014-01-18 00:22:42 UTC
Amazing

TRULY A M A Z I N G

CCP for the last 5 years has nerfed hi sec to h (am I allowed to say it, it rhymes with bell?)
and one almost inconsequential partial, lite tap on the oh so Purdy hand of nul sec and everyone goes wild.

Why don't all you hardcore pirates; dedicated players; take your own advice to us hi sec people and just learn to adjust?

Or is that asking too much?


OH, the TEARS
Fix Sov
#568 - 2014-01-18 00:27:57 UTC
Uh, CCP has nerfed hisec to hell the past 5 years?

Which universe are you living in? Can't be the same universe I'm living in, because for the most part it's been buffs to hisec.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#569 - 2014-01-18 01:12:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You need to edumudicate yourself a bit :)

Anecdotal evidence generally refers to a 'story' told regarding an event. "I was walking along a track and was abducted and anal probed by strange alien hillbillies". They provide no hard evidence, such as used anal probes or odd burn marks attributable to possible still fitted spacecraft.

Sample size is irrelevant given some data is better than no data, which is what you offer. Data representative of the average null seccers is the opposite of what we need since my stance is that your income is being deliberately curtailed by your voluntary restrictions against utilizing other peoples space due to your bluing every and all in your area out of fear.

Don't try to out science me unless you know what basic science is actually about.



That TNT guy knows his stuff, you on the other hand are highly suspect. You moved the goalposts from "nullsec income is better than highsec income" to ":goonspiracy:." There is still no breakdown of where bounties come from by sec area and as the TNT guy pointed out all you've shown is that nullsec could use a buff.

Based on your anecdote the ESS should be exclusively in highsec.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
General Yazimi
Nexus Incorporated
#570 - 2014-01-18 01:19:24 UTC
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.
Fix Sov
#571 - 2014-01-18 01:20:50 UTC
General Yazimi wrote:
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.

Please, do tell how ESS is supposed to make "entrenched alliances work a little more for said entrenchment".

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#572 - 2014-01-18 01:21:43 UTC
General Yazimi wrote:
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.


So, aside from "Grr Goons", what do you actually like about it?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
General Yazimi
Nexus Incorporated
#573 - 2014-01-18 01:30:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
General Yazimi wrote:
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.


So, aside from "Grr Goons", what do you actually like about it?


"Anyone can access an ESS, not just the owner."

I'll enjoy stealing your ISK when you are out farming - I enjoy the fact that you have to guard the ESS. I like the fact we can fight over it.

Oh btw when you leave - Can I have your stuff?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#574 - 2014-01-18 01:33:24 UTC
General Yazimi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
General Yazimi wrote:
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.


So, aside from "Grr Goons", what do you actually like about it?


"Anyone can access an ESS, not just the owner."

I'll enjoy stealing your ISK when you are out farming - I enjoy the fact that you have to guard the ESS. I like the fact we can fight over it.

Oh btw when you leave - Can I have your stuff?


I wouldn't ever drop one. (I don't live in nullsec, but I'd have to be out of my mind).

Anyone who actually stays in null after this (most of them will just leave), would be insane to risk 20% of their earnings for an extra 5% they won't see.

They'll just dock up or try and go to a different system if they can.

You won't be stealing anything, "they" won't be guarding anything, and nothing will be fought over.

Because 5% isn't worth fighting over. Especially not when they can just go mission.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#575 - 2014-01-18 01:34:15 UTC
General Yazimi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
General Yazimi wrote:
Someone is afraid that their entrenched alliances needs to work a little more for said entrenchment. I love the concept of ESS.


So, aside from "Grr Goons", what do you actually like about it?


"Anyone can access an ESS, not just the owner."

I'll enjoy stealing your ISK when you are out farming - I enjoy the fact that you have to guard the ESS. I like the fact we can fight over it.

Oh btw when you leave - Can I have your stuff?
How can you steal their ISK, if they don't deploy it?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Fix Sov
#576 - 2014-01-18 01:41:32 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
How can you steal their ISK, if they don't deploy it?

Pubbie magic.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#577 - 2014-01-18 04:55:03 UTC
I love all the"speshul" children going, "Ha ha! I'm going to steal all the Goonies ISKies. LOL!" when 1. We aren't going to deploy the damn stupid things, and 2. Anybody that does is goonfucking and going to be kicked from the alliance post haste.


  • The "reward" is not commensurate with the "risk"

  • It won't drive conflict. Ratters will just dock up like before, and if the hostile gang leaves one of these behind they are out 30 mil ISK, as the ratters will just destroy this thing when they feel safe enough to undock, or move to a different system and continue ratting.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#578 - 2014-01-18 05:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You need to edumudicate yourself a bit :)

Anecdotal evidence generally refers to a 'story' told regarding an event. "I was walking along a track and was abducted and anal probed by strange alien hillbillies". They provide no hard evidence, such as used anal probes or odd burn marks attributable to possible still fitted spacecraft.

Sample size is irrelevant given some data is better than no data, which is what you offer. Data representative of the average null seccers is the opposite of what we need since my stance is that your income is being deliberately curtailed by your voluntary restrictions against utilizing other peoples space due to your bluing every and all in your area out of fear.

Don't try to out science me unless you know what basic science is actually about.



That TNT guy knows his stuff, you on the other hand are highly suspect. You moved the goalposts from "nullsec income is better than highsec income" to ":goonspiracy:." There is still no breakdown of where bounties come from by sec area and as the TNT guy pointed out all you've shown is that nullsec could use a buff.

Based on your anecdote the ESS should be exclusively in highsec.

So your argument is "That TNT guy knows his stuff". You follow up with a statement inferring I am dishonestly presenting something but with no specifics. You infer there is a requirement for a breakdown of bounties by sec status despite my stating that my income is sec status independent since I roam and ignore sec status entirely. Also given I am un-affiliated I am usually in higher sec status as the majority of affiliated prefer lowest sec for maximal profits precluding my operating in those systems.

You state I have shown that nullsec could use a buff despite my showing that even a soloer such as myself can make billions operating in null with minimal effort. That doesn't quite make sense to me and I think the average non-goon person is intelligent enough to see through your obfuscation of the facts.

I recently wrote a guide, which can be found on Missions and Complexes regarding making absurd amounts of isk in Null. You should probably read it before ignorantly commenting again.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#579 - 2014-01-18 05:27:42 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You need to edumudicate yourself a bit :)

Anecdotal evidence generally refers to a 'story' told regarding an event. "I was walking along a track and was abducted and anal probed by strange alien hillbillies". They provide no hard evidence, such as used anal probes or odd burn marks attributable to possible still fitted spacecraft.

Sample size is irrelevant given some data is better than no data, which is what you offer. Data representative of the average null seccers is the opposite of what we need since my stance is that your income is being deliberately curtailed by your voluntary restrictions against utilizing other peoples space due to your bluing every and all in your area out of fear.

Don't try to out science me unless you know what basic science is actually about.



That TNT guy knows his stuff, you on the other hand are highly suspect. You moved the goalposts from "nullsec income is better than highsec income" to ":goonspiracy:." There is still no breakdown of where bounties come from by sec area and as the TNT guy pointed out all you've shown is that nullsec could use a buff.

Based on your anecdote the ESS should be exclusively in highsec.

So your argument is "That TNT guy knows his stuff". You follow up with a statement inferring I am dishonestly presenting something but with no specifics. You infer there is a requirement for a breakdown of bounties by sec status despite my stating that my income is sec status independent since I roam and ignore sec status entirely. Also given I am un-affiliated I am usually in higher sec status as the majority of affiliated prefer lowest sec for maximal profits precluding my operating in those systems.

You state I have shown that nullsec could use a buff despite my showing that even a soloer such as myself can make billions operating in null with minimal effort. That doesn't quite make sense to me and I think the average non-goon person is intelligent enough to see through your obfuscation of the facts.

I recently wrote a guide, which can be found on Missions and Complexes regarding making absurd amounts of isk in Null. You should probably read it before ignorantly commenting again.

Well, when you pull the handle on the slot machine as many times as you do, your bound to hit a few jackpots. You sound like you are trying to hock a book on how to make money, like some late night infomercial huckster.

"You too, can make fabulous wealth like I did*, just buy my course for the low low price of 199.99."

*Actual results may vary.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#580 - 2014-01-18 05:31:49 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jon Feist wrote:
For every ESS module that is seen in Nullsec, a miner will be ganked.

You should start now and get ahead to avoid the rush.


No miners will die over this. Thats how terrible this idea is.

So I guess that’s part of what I am not getting. If this is Sooooo bad and no one will use it then why do so many people have their underooes in a twist? I think the FEAR comes from not knowing.

There is no fear.

We know this will be unused. Leaving us with a flat 5% bounty nerf to all of null sec. To be un-iterated on for an unknown length of time.

Who does it affect? Those of us unwilling to use alts elsewhere to provide a superior living. Call me crazy (or lazy?). I like to undock a character with a PvP oriented skill set and make some ISK right where I live, when I have nothing better to do.

Then again, CCP did recently expand availability of jump clones and reduce the timer. Mission running in complete safety is just a mouse click away. The caveat being I now have one less character to get shot at / shoot people with in null for the day. Not quite what the ESS was supposed to accomplish, huh?