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ESS Discussion Thread

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#461 - 2014-01-17 06:09:28 UTC
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.

That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.

Cheers.

Smile


Implementing the ESS where some folks actually spend their isk on Ships for PVP then relying on a lliance SHip Rep[lacement Fund to replace the stuff they broke. Implementing this ESS will only force some pilots back to empire space. where Incursion running is safer and more isk involved then ratting in havens or Sanctums.

the ESS is not a great idea. if it has a significant impact on my pvp action in nullsec i will consider moving to empire space and carebear it up like a champ.

GOOOOOOD. Those people are there because its easy, safe and anti-pvp. Goood. Let them go back to empire where they belong. The reason the whole galaxy is one big blue love fest is because of these poor sad scared people who don't belong in null sec.

That might leave the people who want to fight, don't want to NAP every group in game so no one attacks them. Take Branch and Failcon for example - they're bears, they don't deserve to be out in null carebearing it up, they should be prey not a member of a coalition.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#462 - 2014-01-17 06:16:00 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I would like to point out that a significant portion of truesec being functionally worthless for use by more than one person at any given time is not self imposed.

Odd because as I have demonstrated repeatedly, I operate in all areas of nullsec and make multiple billions a month. The difference between me and the whiners? I ignore truesec and don't have to worry that I've blued half of the entire null sec systems to the point I am unable to utilize systems owned by other people.

Null is not a psuedo-high sec, its a place for both conflict and profit - its not our fault bluing everyone means you can't go out there and TAKE content like I do.

Stop bitching when you're being scared to step on someones toes prevents you making isk...

Edit: One thing I do agree with is blitzing in missions. It should be removed. All NPC's should be required to be killed, there should be no skipping most of the content and only selectively running skippable content to make lots of LP fast. The same shoudl apply to null sec though.


No you don't you assert that you winning once at loot tables is evidence of decadent nullsec living. You are a voice of ignorance that tries to loudly shout down people providing you with data. The EVE version of Margaret Thatcher.

Do I need to once again link the 10 screenshots I already linked in the last thread showing multiple billions per null sec trip. Once = 1 just for your information. Since I linked 10 separate shots and can link more if you like that doesn't qualify as once. My 10 accounts are paid for purely with loot from null and I'm not even a null sec member, I'm a solo player.

This is just one of those shots. As you can clearly see, I ran 6 sites. I obtained 6 high end loot items, one was a A-type Invul worth 1.5 billion, others were x-type, b-type and faction BS and cruiser drops. Once no, twice, no, 6 times, yes in 6 sites. That's not counting the likely 30-50 million per site in bounties.

This was my best run, over 5 billion in 4 days out in null.


No what you need to do, is go and rat in nullsec for x hours a day, y days a week, in the same location using the same exact method. Then you need to put it in a spread sheet and give it to us. These little anecdotes and the shouting you love to do mean nothing.

Wait, why in the same location? Why would I rat in one single system when I have thousands of systems to rat in? This is exactly what I mean, you're restricting yourself to something which is not beneficial to isk production.

Go and take Branch, kick those Failcons out and you have a whole extra region of systems to utilize, take Tenal while your at it, Razor are pretty useless. Stop renting systems and start using them. Your whining about lack of anoms and sigs but you're directly contributing to why you lack them ffs.

And they're not anecdotes, they're evidence and data in the form of screenshots.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Yonis Zanjoahir
Doomheim
#463 - 2014-01-17 06:17:42 UTC
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#464 - 2014-01-17 06:21:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
~angry words~


That's one way to gather statistical data you'd need to prove your point. I literally told you how to get data so you can argue your point. Instead of spewing garbage like you always do, you could do some actual science here and you know have data to show to those of us who form our opinions based on fact and data. Your one attempt is an anecdote, a one time story telling of what happened. Anecdotes aren't evidence and don't hold up in arguments, data however does.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#465 - 2014-01-17 06:23:19 UTC
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#466 - 2014-01-17 06:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Please stop whining about how little you can make in null due to your self imposed limitations because:

1. You have willingly created a system in which you MUST consider people outside your corporation / alliance.
2. You have willingly accepted arbitrary invisible lines which prevent you utilizing the whole of your area.
3. You would rather have a safe, blue universe rather than one in which conflict occurs.

Whining that there is not enough content because of your self imposed limitations and using those self imposed limitations as an excuse to knock the ESS is horse[stuff that comes out of a horses bum and is brown].

Its like someone choosing only to eat blue smarties and whining that there don't put enough 'smarties' in the packet. Well they do they're just not all blue. Okay bad analogy but it still works.

The ESS seems less about nerfing income in null and more about increasing the ability to force interactions between carebears and non-carebears. If you want complete safety go to high... wait, go to wormho... wait.. its EVE, you're mostly extremely safe in null but you shouldn't be totally safe so suck it up bitches.


I had to ask Gordan Ramsey to help with me with this. He said I should say...

for ****s sake infinity, I can't put this in clearer to you. I want to use my null****Ingsec ****ing system as a base to build a ****ing combat ****ing organisation. As it turns out its ****ing terrible for that, and all you ever do is ****ing well post the exact reasons why its ****ing terrible for that, as if that is some kind of ****ing counter argument to my point. You have missed the point by so far, it is just not ****ing funny anymore.

The book of BEAR. volume 1, chapter 1.

I WILL NOT ENGAGE A ROAMING GANG, BECAUSE ENGAGING A ROAMING GANG MAKES THEM COME BACK.
I WILL ENGAGE A BEAR, BECAUSE ENGAGING A BEAR MAKES THEM GO AWAY.

That is all CCP ever needs to know about bears, and why this thing is such a stupid idea. The fact that I work on the above system is patently obvious by my kills (which now totals exactly 1 scout whos kill got pulled and a giant pile of tiny bears, whos kills don't get pulled so you can't see them).

What CCP needs to do is create reasons for BEARS to become GANG MEMBERS, instead of having most of nullsec be terminally ******** as bases for GANG MEMBERS.
E6o5
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2014-01-17 06:34:11 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.


So you know where to go with your bots
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#468 - 2014-01-17 06:34:37 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
~angry words~


That's one way to gather statistical data you'd need to prove your point. I literally told you how to get data so you can argue your point. Instead of spewing garbage like you always do, you could do some actual science here and you know have data to show to those of us who form our opinions based on fact and data. Your one attempt is an anecdote, a one time story telling of what happened. Anecdotes aren't evidence and don't hold up in arguments, data however does.

Except its not one time, I have shown evidence that is indeed repeatable to the degree I can keep 10 accounts subscribed with just this one character running sites.

As I stated I have posted multiple shots of different trips to null and they all show they ended with billions in loot.

Lets see your evidence of how terrible and poor you are, show us your screenies, spreadsheets and so on which you demand from me? No? Don't have any ? I thought so.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
E6o5
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2014-01-17 06:34:58 UTC
I for one love the new deployable Tear Generation Unit
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#470 - 2014-01-17 06:37:41 UTC
E6o5 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.


So you know where to go with your bots


He's right, though. Hiseccers are the biggest culprits when it comes to botting.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#471 - 2014-01-17 06:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
~angry words~


That's one way to gather statistical data you'd need to prove your point. I literally told you how to get data so you can argue your point. Instead of spewing garbage like you always do, you could do some actual science here and you know have data to show to those of us who form our opinions based on fact and data. Your one attempt is an anecdote, a one time story telling of what happened. Anecdotes aren't evidence and don't hold up in arguments, data however does.

Except its not one time, I have shown evidence that is indeed repeatable to the degree I can keep 10 accounts subscribed with just this one character running sites.

As I stated I have posted multiple shots of different trips to null and they all show they ended with billions in loot.

Lets see your evidence of how terrible and poor you are, show us your screenies, spreadsheets and so on which you demand from me? No? Don't have any ? I thought so.


It is Anecdotal evidence which means its entirely worthless in all but very specific circumstances hence, all of those things you like to trot out are worthless. The data is pretty clearly cherry picked and we call your type of idiocy an informal fallacy. Once you provide statistical data if it shows your right, guess what those of us who are not highsec people that refuse to accept facts will change our minds based on the data.

As it is now you only have a fairy tale, you have no data. So go read my post and get data if you want to do more than flail about insignificantly.

I suspect the public education system has failed you so here's some more reasons why your one time event isn't data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Before you start with the pedantry, you are not a trained observer.

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Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#472 - 2014-01-17 06:57:40 UTC
Null tears...best tears.

+1 ESS
Yonis Zanjoahir
Doomheim
#473 - 2014-01-17 07:00:22 UTC
Andski wrote:
E6o5 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.


So you know where to go with your bots


He's right, though. Hiseccers are the biggest culprits when it comes to botting.


And by that you mean there's more bots per capita in nullsec, right ?
And the income of a ratting bot is a lot higher than that of a mining bot ?
And there's a lot more bots per populated system in nullsec ?
And virtually all frequent belt ratters are botters ?
And since nullseccers don't report their own bots a big source of highsec detection (reports) is almost absent in nullsec ?

Yeah, i know.
E6o5
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#474 - 2014-01-17 07:06:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
E6o5 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.


So you know where to go with your bots


He's right, though. Hiseccers are the biggest culprits when it comes to botting.


Your proof is very convincing. This thread however proofs that nullbears are the biggest crybabies at the moment.

But view it from a different angle, the less money your enemy makes botting erm i mean ratting, the less money they can spent on drone carriers - you got the nerf you were crying for Blink
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#475 - 2014-01-17 07:07:58 UTC
E6o5 wrote:
Andski wrote:
E6o5 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


Security presentation showed that most of the botting occurs in highsec and over half of all botting occurs in caldari highsec.


So you know where to go with your bots


He's right, though. Hiseccers are the biggest culprits when it comes to botting.


Your proof is very convincing. This thread however proofs that nullbears are the biggest crybabies at the moment.

But view it from a different angle, the less money your enemy makes botting erm i mean ratting, the less money they can spent on drone carriers - you got the nerf you were crying for Blink


I don't have the link Tippia had before to show it but yeah its there.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#476 - 2014-01-17 07:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
And by that you mean there's more bots per capita in nullsec, right ?
And the income of a ratting bot is a lot higher than that of a mining bot ?
And there's a lot more bots per populated system in nullsec ?
And virtually all frequent belt ratters are botters ?
And since nullseccers don't report their own bots a big source of highsec detection (reports) is almost absent in nullsec ?

Yeah, i know.


Wrong, wrong and wrong. For one, bot reports aren't decisive in bots being banned - market bots are virtually indistinguishable from a human manually updating orders, making reporting them difficult. But market bots still get banned. Bots don't operate in populated systems because it attracts attention, you have no evidence to claim that frequent belt ratters are botters and you know it, and mining isn't the only bot-friendly income source in hisec, unless you've never heard of missions.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#477 - 2014-01-17 07:26:40 UTC
Also you don't change game mechanics to combat botting, you ban bots to combat botting, making this botting tangent a waste of time. Unless you also want L4 missions to require lowsec travel as a "solution" to the fact that they are heavily botted!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
TharOkha
0asis Group
#478 - 2014-01-17 07:27:28 UTC
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
A bunch of angry botters itt lmao.

+1 for ESS.


cmon dude, im hisec dweller too and sometimes i LOL on null tears (like endless AFK cloaks threads or how nullsec industry suck while they clearly overlook main problem.. no superior trade hubs in null...... and they blame hisec for itl)

But this one is really stupid. Its obvious nullsec rats nerf. Advantages of ESS are LOL. Its easily destroyable, its potential bonus (105%) is LOL....

Nope..... as i i see it.. Its stealth PVE nerf ... nullsec exclusive.

There would less rage if this ESS would be deployable in hisec and lowsec too.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#479 - 2014-01-17 07:28:53 UTC
No **** the hiseccers in this thread would be crying murder if this affected their precious L4/incursion rewards

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#480 - 2014-01-17 07:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Also what kind of mouthbreathing moron would remotely believe that botters would care about a slight income nerf? Botters don't care if they're pulling 1.5 billion a day or 1.4 billion a day because it's effort-free ISK.

The people who are unhappy about this change are those that actually sit at their keyboards to eke a living out of their space, not botters.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar