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ESS Discussion Thread

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Kate stark
#281 - 2014-01-16 16:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
the opinions don't seem to be very mixed to me...


a similar post just said the same thing. but we can't discuss moderation. shh.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
P'tank
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2014-01-16 16:18:16 UTC
A big BOO for the ESS

To sum it up:

- Bubble: T3's and inties can avoid it
- System wide: big BOO - will cause drama
- Risk loosing 20% to gain 5% .. right ..
- Use it to draw make pvp more rewarding: great .. but who's paying? Right the newbies. Vets don't rat, they got enough cash.


Suggestion: don't make it system wide, but limit it to a single grid? Make a special version of the mobile tractor unit which has such effects?
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#283 - 2014-01-16 16:20:43 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
seems almost everyone hates it.


Hence mixed, you frickin gump-slat

he said very mixed. that would imply this piece of crap has a lot of support.

Genseric Tollaris
Hard Cog Industry
#284 - 2014-01-16 16:23:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i quite frankly would rather you all buggered off and stayed in null, less competition for fleet spots in high sec incursions. *shrug* but, that doesn't stop the ESS being terrible and the 5% bounty nerf being so far unjustified.


Yeah I wasn't serious. I make my isk farming lp in fw and trading in high sec. Tried incursions, they ain't my thing.

Personally, I like the idea of shaking up null income, and I agree with the goons I've seen suggest these should be in high sec as well. Hell they should be personal bounty siphons that you can put in any sec system and you get a cut of all bounties paid out. Suspect timer for thieving or shooting one that isn't yours. Don't last long, can't be scooped and don't go into reinforced and need to be scanned down. That'd really shake it up, and anything that allows players to interfere with other players is a good thing in my book. The mission hubs would sure be a lot more lively Twisted

Either way the reward certainly doesn't seem to justify the hassle of using the ESS for anything other than interfering with others just to **** them off. And if its to be introduced I think it needs more concrete applications other than tear harvesting. It could be pretty decent if it offered the potential for a sizable buff to bounty rewards. Perhaps the bonus it provides could increase over time the longer you can keep it intact. There's a lot better things that could be done with it, but as it is, it looks like it needs more work.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#285 - 2014-01-16 16:25:36 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
seems almost everyone hates it.


Hence mixed, you frickin gump-slat

he said very mixed. that would imply this piece of crap has a lot of support.




No it wouldnt; it would mean not everyone is having an eppy over its existance.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#286 - 2014-01-16 16:32:58 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.

That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.

Cheers.

Smile


I would like to point out that if, as CCP SoniClover states, Nullsec ratting income is really too much of an isk faucet, you should simply nerf them.

The ESS manages to be both overly complicated and hamfisted in it's purpose. The opportunity cost for using it vastly outweighs any benefit of it's use. It should not make live in it's current state.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#287 - 2014-01-16 16:51:43 UTC
EES sounds like good idea. However if the goal is to create more occasion for solo/small gang conflict around a "territorial" module and setting a prize for activelly patrolling/engaging (and an ISK loss for losing/evading the fight) then probably the gamble is not enough and should be on a wider range.

As others already said in the thread I also think ESS should beallowed in HS and low. Not sure how to handle the flagging related issue, but could be a good improvement.

And, yes, as others already pointed out, if was just to nerf ratting they had more efficient and easy ways to do it.
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#288 - 2014-01-16 16:56:01 UTC
Anyway it would be good if CCP would actually tell people the reasoning behind this in the first place? They just post something without giving any context or background as to why they are doing it. Probably would have saved half of the angry posts tbh
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#289 - 2014-01-16 16:58:44 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.

That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.

Cheers.

Smile

80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.

also, the current attitude of CCP Soniclover in the original thread, answering the 2 or 3 comments going his way and ignoring 40+ pages of comments going against IS, i quote you "taking a dump all over" the players.

not that we are not used to it since a few years, but maybe ppl start to be fed up with this general attitude, thus get more and more virulent at each new occurence of it......

hint: upsetting a playerbase in a recurrent manner is NOT A GOOD IDEA, sooner or later, this will swing back, just a matter of time, it already happened once, and it wasn't pretty.......

i love this game, hence why i do comment on incoming features, because i hope to help improve the game (same goes for mass test / bug reports etc....).

but lately, i tend to avoid it as much as possible, whatever feedback we give, it's plain ignored, mass test and bug reports following, or even TQ bug reports are just a pain in the rear to do, with NO FEEDBACK at all (sic!).

the feeling i have is that CCP doesn't care anymore about eve, and put it on the back burner, throwing a bunch of easy thing (deployable) in the hope the player keep playing, to milk as long as possible the diyng cow Sad
Mildew Wolf
#290 - 2014-01-16 16:59:08 UTC
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#291 - 2014-01-16 17:02:25 UTC
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.

What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days?
Khalid DeCroix
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#292 - 2014-01-16 17:04:41 UTC
The ess is stupid, but I won't riot. I'll just blow it up every time I see it until blues quit anchoring the crap.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2014-01-16 17:09:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.

What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days?

The incredible drops, the almost complete safety, the exclusive benefits null sec gets over high sec?

The ESS sounds pretty damn fantastic. Why - because it means people using it have to decide if a) a neut enters system and they dock up like nullbears b) a nuetral enters system and they don't dock up like nullbears.

Besides there is an easy and totally safe solution to using it if you wanna be massive cretins...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#294 - 2014-01-16 17:12:57 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.



Well, it aint unanimous either

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#295 - 2014-01-16 17:16:01 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.

That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.

Cheers.

Smile

80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.

also, the current attitude of CCP Soniclover in the original thread, answering the 2 or 3 comments going his way and ignoring 40+ pages of comments going against IS, i quote you "taking a dump all over" the players.

not that we are not used to it since a few years, but maybe ppl start to be fed up with this general attitude, thus get more and more virulent at each new occurence of it......

hint: upsetting a playerbase in a recurrent manner is NOT A GOOD IDEA, sooner or later, this will swing back, just a matter of time, it already happened once, and it wasn't pretty.......

i love this game, hence why i do comment on incoming features, because i hope to help improve the game (same goes for mass test / bug reports etc....).

but lately, i tend to avoid it as much as possible, whatever feedback we give, it's plain ignored, mass test and bug reports following, or even TQ bug reports are just a pain in the rear to do, with NO FEEDBACK at all (sic!).

the feeling i have is that CCP doesn't care anymore about eve, and put it on the back burner, throwing a bunch of easy thing (deployable) in the hope the player keep playing, to milk as long as possible the diyng cow Sad


I agree with this. However i think sometimes the playerbase (mainly vets and large null alliances) have had a hand in this also.
They were the ones crying out for smaller more quality expansions because CCP could not deliver a big bang expansion completely. Meaning for instance Faction Warfare, was a great idea but was so bad implemented it wasnt worth it and met with a poor reception. The Sov mechanics, they spent ages changing it and it turned out to be terrible and not finished, and now only a few years later people want it changed again. CCP did big expansions but never completed the features. So they started doing the small stuff that was complete but its just not enough.

I really miss the big expansions
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#296 - 2014-01-16 17:17:59 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.

What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days?

The incredible drops, the almost complete safety, the exclusive benefits null sec gets over high sec?

The ESS sounds pretty damn fantastic. Why - because it means people using it have to decide if a) a neut enters system and they dock up like nullbears b) a nuetral enters system and they don't dock up like nullbears.

Besides there is an easy and totally safe solution to using it if you wanna be massive cretins...



The drops are rare, the safety is docking up every time something not blue enters local and ]we have no benefits over high sec in terms of income for the line member.

And now another nerf to our income.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#297 - 2014-01-16 17:19:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.

What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days?

The incredible drops, the almost complete safety, the exclusive benefits null sec gets over high sec?

The ESS sounds pretty damn fantastic. Why - because it means people using it have to decide if a) a neut enters system and they dock up like nullbears b) a nuetral enters system and they don't dock up like nullbears.

Besides there is an easy and totally safe solution to using it if you wanna be massive cretins...


well, it has been said earlier, but whether they dock up or not, they can't do anything to prevent, let's say, a stiletto from robbing the thing?

it has a beacon, stiletto warp to it upon entering and trigger the payout, warp to a safe he made at 1000 Km just before landing on said ess to wait for timer then go bak in, loot and leave.

in the mean time, there is nothing the PVE fleet can do, by the time they land on ESS grid, the stiletto is already waiting on his safe, so unless they rat in smartbombing or instalock ships, they won't catch it when he loots......

scratch reshipping, it's even longer.

ho, and i forgot this: the simple fact of triggering the payement reset the bonus thingy, so even if he doesn't loot, he already screwed the pve ppl, even if he didn't made isk from it.....
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#298 - 2014-01-16 17:21:56 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.



Well, it aint unanimous either

sure, but someone honnest would start by adressing the major complain, yet they ignore it
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#299 - 2014-01-16 17:23:14 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.

That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.

Cheers.

Smile

80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.

also, the current attitude of CCP Soniclover in the original thread, answering the 2 or 3 comments going his way and ignoring 40+ pages of comments going against IS, i quote you "taking a dump all over" the players.

not that we are not used to it since a few years, but maybe ppl start to be fed up with this general attitude, thus get more and more virulent at each new occurence of it......

hint: upsetting a playerbase in a recurrent manner is NOT A GOOD IDEA, sooner or later, this will swing back, just a matter of time, it already happened once, and it wasn't pretty.......

i love this game, hence why i do comment on incoming features, because i hope to help improve the game (same goes for mass test / bug reports etc....).

but lately, i tend to avoid it as much as possible, whatever feedback we give, it's plain ignored, mass test and bug reports following, or even TQ bug reports are just a pain in the rear to do, with NO FEEDBACK at all (sic!).

the feeling i have is that CCP doesn't care anymore about eve, and put it on the back burner, throwing a bunch of easy thing (deployable) in the hope the player keep playing, to milk as long as possible the diyng cow Sad


I agree with this. However i think sometimes the playerbase (mainly vets and large null alliances) have had a hand in this also.
They were the ones crying out for smaller more quality expansions because CCP could not deliver a big bang expansion completely. Meaning for instance Faction Warfare, was a great idea but was so bad implemented it wasnt worth it and met with a poor reception. The Sov mechanics, they spent ages changing it and it turned out to be terrible and not finished, and now only a few years later people want it changed again. CCP did big expansions but never completed the features. So they started doing the small stuff that was complete but its just not enough.

I really miss the big expansions

and yet CCP still deliver incomplete and half baked, even on small things.....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#300 - 2014-01-16 17:24:14 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Well, it aint unanimous either


The only people defending this are the people who do not live in null.