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[Rubicon 1.1] Mobile Micro Jump Unit and Mobile Scan Inhibitor

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Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#901 - 2014-01-12 19:49:13 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:

You just invaded someone else's wormhole
You deploy your MSI, or deploy several at multiple locations

The defenders know there is an MSI out there
They gain no intel on fleet composition
They will have conflicting intel on your fleet location

It can be a useful tool for aggressors
especially in preparation for engagement conditions


Or you could log off like people do now, which would do a better job of hiding your fleet comp.
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End
#902 - 2014-01-12 21:26:34 UTC
I'm concerned that this d-scan unit thingy will make people ratting in null-sec systems further uncatchable. You will know that there is a unit there, but no way to know if it is worth warping to (is it a drake or is it a nidhoggur?) and they'll still have the advantage of local and start spooling up warp the second you come into system.

In the wormhole side of things, it could make for interesting engagements, but it's not going to protect PVE fleets a great deal, because they're going to disengage when they see a wormhole pop if they're smart, and if they're doing cap escalations they're in a siege cycle anyways, and we're going to see their kills on wormnav and just start checking where the mobile d-scan inhibitor is at.

It's an interesting concept for PVP, but I'm concerned about the PVE protection factor that takes out a lot of the gankability in null.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Alundil
Rolled Out
#903 - 2014-01-12 22:12:23 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Can a pod use the jump drive and if so could I jump into enemy POSs and steal unpiloted ships?

Given that the mjd won't allow you to jump into an enemy pos (also now somewhat of an exploit to use warp mechanics to do so as well) I'd say no. But would be hilarious otherwise.

I'm right behind you

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#904 - 2014-01-12 23:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Kitty Bear wrote:

You just invaded someone else's wormhole
You deploy your MSI, or deploy several at multiple locations

The defenders know there is an MSI out there
They gain no intel on fleet composition
They will have conflicting intel on your fleet location


Sure, and not having any clue about enemy fleet composition and location will encourage people to happly engage :)

We all know is not the way things work in EVE. Those things are like portable gate camps. Now, in my experience, if you think there's a gatecamp waiting on the other side you don't gather a random gang and jump to engage. If you are alone you simply care to have a ship able to evade the camp or simply don't jump.

If you're in fleet too you send a suicide scout in and then you see, if enemy numbers and fleet composition are ok for you then you bring the fleet in. Otherwise you give up (and goodbye scout).

Your example only apply (as a remote chance) to WH, that's just where such a change is not needed.
The fact that in any other situation in EVE doesn't work simply prove that is pointless without a nerf to local and the side already holding the ground, the defender, is the one having the time/chance to deploy this modules

Aside any theorycraft we know MSI will be used only to conceal PVE activities and blobbing gatecamps. And in general adding time sinks and deadlocks to the gameplay
Candente
Navy Veteran Club
#905 - 2014-01-13 06:56:18 UTC
MSI really should disable drag bubble effects within its radius, since in its current form it still is a big nerf to scan ships other than a nullified T3.
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#906 - 2014-01-13 13:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Mobile jump whatsit changes are good. Possibly too little EHP to be of any use whatsoever but let's see. Better to start cautiously than ruin a ship type completely (yes, even kite-scrub Condors).

Mobile scan whatsit is just a gift to FW farmers. They need to be kept away from the beacon in FW plexes. The main thing they will accomplish in their current iteration (in FW space) is to decrease the number of fights.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

dirtydebbs
the wreking crew
#907 - 2014-01-13 14:24:30 UTC
right errrrm the MMJD ...

please correct me if I am reading this wrongly....

once activated all within range of unit will be mjd away or only people who activate it can including anyone ?

cos if the all within range is what is does that means a free get out of jail card even if scramed, get talked ure scrammed fleet lands u hit the MMJD ure scrammed so it doesn't work for you but enemy fleet bounce 100km in all direction including ure takle and then u just mosey out of there ??
Alundil
Rolled Out
#908 - 2014-01-13 15:05:41 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
G'host Warrot wrote:
Well this D-Scan thing is now dead for me. Thought about it for Solomining in Low-Sec.

To much cost, to low durationtime.

Well then, go ahead.






Me too man. I'm actually really sad Sad. As a solo player who doesn't have time for a large corp, I was going to get a heck of a lot of use for this mining outside high sec, and especially in wormholes. Currently, the rewards of mining outside high sec are nowhere worth the risk and costs and repetitive stress syndrome from having to mash d-scan every second as your only defense.

We could have had a defensive tool that provided more opportunities for you solo pirates, but the status quo, "aggressor advantage", couldn't let that happen. Way to go Straight


If you were looking at this tool to provide a way for you to mine in safety in either low sec, 0.0 or w-space you would have been sadly disappointed regardless of the ongoing alterations to the scan inhibitor. As a wormholer, let me be the first to tell you "anyone can easily learn who's mining in an ore anomaly." It is trivially easy. You have no one to thank for that other than CCP, Odyssey and the move of Grav/Ore sites from scanned signatures to insta-warp anoms. This has literally ZERO bearing on the MSI.

And this explains a lot but...
Furthermore, solo mining in hostile territory is foolishness regardless of what setup you use. Bring a friend or three.

With all that out of the way, for someone who is obviously too "timid" to use their actual pilot (you don't truly believe that anyone thinks you're just a very impassioned but new pilot, right?) your request to everyone to "HTFU" would be almost endearing if it weren't patently obvious trolling from a frightened 'bear.'

So without further ado, you can rest safe in the knowledge that you're the second to be added to the "My word that person is too dense to bother with list" (better known as ignore). Feel free to play with Dinsdale's tinfoil collection.

I'm right behind you

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#909 - 2014-01-13 15:32:35 UTC
dirtydebbs wrote:
right errrrm the MMJD ...

please correct me if I am reading this wrongly....

once activated all within range of unit will be mjd away or only people who activate it can including anyone ?

cos if the all within range is what is does that means a free get out of jail card even if scramed, get talked ure scrammed fleet lands u hit the MMJD ure scrammed so it doesn't work for you but enemy fleet bounce 100km in all direction including ure takle and then u just mosey out of there ??



It doe snto work if you are SCRAMED.. but works if you are disrupted.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#910 - 2014-01-13 15:33:43 UTC
Alundil wrote:
hurr durr


You are possibly the most obnoxious person I have ever seen on Eve O. Congratulations!
Alundil
Rolled Out
#911 - 2014-01-13 16:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Sal Landry wrote:
Alundil wrote:
hurr durr


You are possibly the most obnoxious person I have ever seen on Eve O. Congratulations!

You don't read Eve-O very much then as that was positively tame compared to the overwhelming majority of comments on this forum and others. Given the ridiculous level of redundant and pointless sperg in this thread by some in the "sky is falling" or "HTFU" camps I'd say it was pretty unnoticeable.

But my apologies if i've bruised your overly sensitive sensibilities; though you might refrain from white knighting untenable positions in the future given the above.

I'm right behind you

Lvzbel Ixtab
Dark Venture Corporation
#912 - 2014-01-13 22:55:52 UTC
Mobile Micro Jump Unit: say bye bye to kitting, easy way out for brawlers= lame

Mobile Scan Inhibitor: Safer null bears, and FW traps

I dont see anything positive coming out of this, just making null bears safer and killing a completely legitimate way to pvp (kitting)

dirtydebbs
the wreking crew
#913 - 2014-01-14 09:06:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
dirtydebbs wrote:
right errrrm the MMJD ...

please correct me if I am reading this wrongly....

once activated all within range of unit will be mjd away or only people who activate it can including anyone ?

cos if the all within range is what is does that means a free get out of jail card even if scramed, get talked ure scrammed fleet lands u hit the MMJD ure scrammed so it doesn't work for you but enemy fleet bounce 100km in all direction including ure takle and then u just mosey out of there ??



It doe snto work if you are SCRAMED.. but works if you are disrupted.



yes so if ure scrammed you wont mj 100km out but everyone on grid who isn't scrammed will?

basically what im saying is does this thing make everyone within range mj so scenario

so scenario your pveing with one of these on grid next to you ure ganked enemy fleet lands on you and u get scrammed youre screwd basically so u activate the mmjd and everyone within range mj away in there direction? or is it only the person who activates it does if able to?

cos taking my first scenario into account u get scrammed ure only person who is scrammed u activate the mmjd everyone within range of it gets bounced 100km away except you cos u were scrammed giving you time to gtfo?

that's what im trying to get at
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#914 - 2014-01-14 09:14:44 UTC
^ I'm not 100% sure but if it did work like that, it would be the dumbest mechanic in game.

I imagine every individual would have to click on the structure and activate it.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#915 - 2014-01-14 09:26:00 UTC
dirtydebbs wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
dirtydebbs wrote:
right errrrm the MMJD ...

please correct me if I am reading this wrongly....

once activated all within range of unit will be mjd away or only people who activate it can including anyone ?

cos if the all within range is what is does that means a free get out of jail card even if scramed, get talked ure scrammed fleet lands u hit the MMJD ure scrammed so it doesn't work for you but enemy fleet bounce 100km in all direction including ure takle and then u just mosey out of there ??



It doe snto work if you are SCRAMED.. but works if you are disrupted.



yes so if ure scrammed you wont mj 100km out but everyone on grid who isn't scrammed will?

basically what im saying is does this thing make everyone within range mj so scenario

so scenario your pveing with one of these on grid next to you ure ganked enemy fleet lands on you and u get scrammed youre screwd basically so u activate the mmjd and everyone within range mj away in there direction? or is it only the person who activates it does if able to?

cos taking my first scenario into account u get scrammed ure only person who is scrammed u activate the mmjd everyone within range of it gets bounced 100km away except you cos u were scrammed giving you time to gtfo?

that's what im trying to get at



No no.. You do nto move anyoen else. Nothign in eve has that type of effect. You always activate things for your OWN ship only.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
Muffins of Mayhem
#916 - 2014-01-14 11:12:15 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
Here's my concern with the Mobile Scan Inhibitor (MSI). Won't it require roamers to bring a prober and an interdiction nullified ship wherever they go to (1) find and then (2) investigate every MSI? How does it help to force solo'ers and small gangers to bring these extra ships along wherever they go? I don't see how the tweaks you just announced help with the fundamental issue. How about making the MSI's into beacons to at least eliminate the need to bring probes wherever you go?

And here's the fundamental issue. The biggest obstacle to fun small-scale fights in Eve is ganks made possible by hiding a fleet's true strength. There are already a lot of ways to spring a trap on someone looking for a gf, do we really need another one? It seems the MSI will help people avoid fights entirely or help them set up ganks, neither of which are good for "fun" PVP.

Put yet another way, what are the envisioned applications of the MSI? To help PVE'ers avoid getting ganked? To help gankers hide until they can safely drop on someone? Or is there potentially a use that will help set up fairer fights?


Any mechanic which forces solo-ers to use and multibox yet more alts is just bad, and needs to die in a fire. Seems like it's "Greed is good" all over again.

I am seriously questioning whether to carry on with this game is this is the direction it's going in.

Pointless gimmicky spammable structures that completely overide actually training skills and fitting modules to ships.
OP modules that discourage PvP and give bears even more safety.

What's next? Deployable turrets and missile launchers? Deployable Concord?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#917 - 2014-01-14 12:01:09 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

I am seriously questioning whether to carry on with this game is this is the direction it's going in.

Pointless gimmicky spammable structures that completely overide actually training skills and fitting modules to ships.
OP modules that discourage PvP and give bears even more safety.


I kind of feel the same. This gimmicky additions get old after the first couple of weeks because they are implemented wrong.

I say scrap the MSI and introduce a local inhibitor (hides from local) instead because after all, we already have cloaks to hide us from D-scan.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#918 - 2014-01-14 12:33:16 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
What's next? Deployable turrets and missile launchers? Deployable Concord?


Sssst, don't give them ideas...

The "cloacking bubble to use in belts" is an idea taken from one of these forums.
And in the same forums were also proposed things like "deployable turrets" and "upgrades indexes in sov null NPC alliance navy"

Ryans Revenge
Drunken Wookies
#919 - 2014-01-14 17:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryans Revenge
Regarding the mobile scanning thing. I don't like it. It's imbalanced for the people inside it simply because they can have an alt sat outside using thier scanner while they have thier main ships inside. Just creating a massive advantage for the people inside it. If alts didnt exist it'd be perfect but they do and this is just a terrible idea.

Further kills skirmish roaming style pvp. It's a fun idea in theory but in practice it's just gonna be extremely lame.
Beta Maoye
#920 - 2014-01-14 18:21:53 UTC
Since you are going to make MMJU, a fleet version of MJD, please also make its counterparts for individual small ship and medium ship i.e.small micro jump drive and medium micro jump drive.