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CCP, to Bring Balance, Nerf AC's (or Remove Blasters).
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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2011-11-15 06:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
1) I'm poking fun at the EFT debate raging around us.


Uh, OK.

Quote:
2) No. I'm saying since they control the engagement range they should have a more limited firepower arc. My Minmatar ship and you're Amarr ship start at 50km apart. I start burning at you at 3km/s. I'm under your guns in seconds. AND I've been hitting you the whole time during the approach. What's wrong with this picture?


Wrong with this picture? The part where you're trying to get a Vagabond "under" a Zealot's guns Ugh

Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Its a pointless debate really, you can keep flying your proj. ships thinking you are having it tough all you want - its not tough - its easy.


I never said Minmatar had it tough. Only Gallente blaster boats have it tough. My argument was that projectiles were balanced compared to pulse. What autocannons have in flexibility, they lose in damage projection and once you move past solo/small gang scenarios, damage projection is all that matters. There are exemptions and tricks you can use in medium-gangs (15-50) but overall the meta is thoroughly dominated by Scorch's damage projection.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2011-11-15 07:34:25 UTC
Firelord Ozai wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
[quote]

And Machs don't count because they're OP as hell. Angel does need a nerf, but not AC's in general.



~all I can do is sigh... at the idea of nerf'ing anything so far beyond insurable...should never happen, EVER


What... Why?

So supercaps didn't need a nerf either, then? Roll
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2011-11-15 07:54:31 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
New boosters do not have side effects. Any Minmatar want an extra 11% falloff to go with their TE? How about a 7.5% reduced sig? You can take two boosters at once now. Roll


You could always take two (or even three!) boosters, assuming they were different slots. That's not new.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2011-11-15 12:07:53 UTC
Quote:
Okay, so... Use a t2 ANP, and trade 2.5k tank for 18mil? I don't know, it's your choice. This is why they teach you those problem solving skills in elementary school.

Wait, what?
Auxiliary Nano Pump? I've fit too many active armour tanks recently.
I'm missing something.
You spend 18mil on an implant, so I decide to spend 18mil on skill hardwirings.

Quote:
1. Stop failfitting and fit an explosive hardener. I have never seen an active Myrm which doesn't do this.

2. Correction: with heat, it's 707 DPS of the 'cane verus 690 of the Harby. And people accuse me of skewing my EFT numbers..

1. Personal preference. Something like 100 more dps, or an extra module which is ineffective against all but, let's face it, Hurricanes?

2. I calculated the DPS using pyfa's graphing function to account for falloff. You know, something an EFT-warrior wouldn't do. Shiny DPS numbers are marred by falloff. In the Harby's case, Multi brings it into falloff. Oh dear.

Quote:
Regardless, though, I still see that you're comparing the two ships in a 1v1. If the "better ship" could be determined by which one wins a 1v1, then all people would ever fly are Rattlesnakes because of their 1500+ dps passive tank.

Words from an EFT-warrior. Are you an EFT-warrior? I hope not. Rattlesnakes may have a nice tank, but they're slow and incapable of catching things. Like non-Minnie ships!

Quote:
I was under the impression we were talking Minmatar battleships, as that's what everyone is calling "OP." in fact, half of this list is Gallente. Lol

Want me to compare DPS and ranges instead? It's astonishing that Minmatar ships should be fast, given their huge range options.

Quote:

The cookie cutter 200mm Rifter fights at close range. And since Harbingers with hammerheads can get "soloed by rifters," they will be right up close to you, amirite?

Two extremely competent Rifters could solo that Harby. Besides, a Harby won't be able to catch Rifters: which is my point. An armourcane will do a better job at catching frigs, though unlikely, and have greater survivability. This leads to my main point that you should un-EFT-warrior that fit of yours by having some Warriorss, so a Dram doesn't ruin your day.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2011-11-15 13:23:32 UTC
You guys should try using more fraps footage to show your point, like actually showing gameplay. There are far too many opinions in these threads.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2011-11-15 16:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Quote:
Wait, what?
Auxiliary Nano Pump? I've fit too many active armour tanks recently.
I'm missing something.
You spend 18mil on an implant, so I decide to spend 18mil on skill hardwirings.


ANP = Adaptive Nano Plating

Quote:
1. Personal preference. Something like 100 more dps, or an extra module which is ineffective against all but, let's face it, Hurricanes?

2. I calculated the DPS using pyfa's graphing function to account for falloff. You know, something an EFT-warrior wouldn't do. Shiny DPS numbers are marred by falloff. In the Harby's case, Multi brings it into falloff. Oh dear.


No, it's effective against anything Minmatar, and anything Caldari. And how is the Harby in falloff from the Myrm? They're both on top of each other, no?

Quote:
Words from an EFT-warrior. Are you an EFT-warrior? I hope not. Rattlesnakes may have a nice tank, but they're slow and incapable of catching things. Like non-Minnie ships!


My point is, all your theories are based on perfect 1v1 scenarios, and you seem to act as though the better ship is determined by which one will win a 1v1. And basically nothing can kill a Rattler in a 1v1, so it must be the best ship. Roll

Quote:
Want me to compare DPS and ranges instead? It's astonishing that Minmatar ships should be fast, given their huge range options.


No, not really. They have less DPS up close than Gallente, and less DPS at range than Amarr. If they weren't fast enough to choose where they want to be, they'd end up as a crappy, unused, "jack of all trades" race. Sort of like pre-dominion.

Quote:
Two extremely competent Rifters could solo that Harby. Besides, a Harby won't be able to catch Rifters: which is my point. An armourcane will do a better job at catching frigs, though unlikely, and have greater survivability. This leads to my main point that you should un-EFT-warrior that fit of yours by having some Warriorss, so a Dram doesn't ruin your day.


Do you kite with your 200mm plated Rifters? Because you seem to be implying that both
*Two rifters can kill a Harby.
*Two rifters can't be caught by a Harby.

If the rifters get close enough to to try and kill the Harby, then they're close enough for the harb to catch them. I still don't see how the two rifters are actually going to kill the Harby, but hey, these magical rifters if they're so good will probably be able to take down a Hurricane as well, in that case.

Additionally, a Dram kiting and orbiting at 20km will take around 100 DPS from scorch. If the Dram decides to close in, you web it, scram it, neut it, pew it, and put your hammerheads on it. (They should be able to keep up with him once he's webbed and scrammed.) You won't hit it very well, no, but you'll hit it well enough to ensure it doesn't solo.

Anyway, this now has little to do with you trying to find fallacies in my numbers (which started this whole thing) and more to do with you theorycrafting a bunch of scenarios, so I'm done here.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#287 - 2011-11-15 16:48:33 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:

Two extremely competent Rifters could solo that Harby. Besides, a Harby won't be able to catch Rifters: which is my point. An armourcane will do a better job at catching frigs, though unlikely, and have greater survivability. This leads to my main point that you should un-EFT-warrior that fit of yours by having some Warriorss, so a Dram doesn't ruin your day.


I'd actually be really surprised if a pair of Rifters soloed my Binger. I've been in that situation quite a few times too, and I've always won (mostly through them bugging out in low health, but sometimes with the kills too). And that was with Hammerheads. There's tricks for lowering transversal and those Rifters aren't exactly tough targets.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#288 - 2011-11-15 17:57:55 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
I'll just leave these here.... Poor Mach pilot's TwistedTwistedTwisted Yep. Gallente suck alright.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14586578

47% damage done.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14586171

30%


Good greece, you need a lot of friends to take down a single Mach when one on one he would just eat you alive, that's what you seem not able to understand.

Has for the second km I'd be rather embarrassed to figure an Harbringer can do same dps than my Megathron, nice stuff.

I see now what you just did !! -Can't wait for next month top 20 to see all those brutix, myrmidon, dominix, megathrons, hyperions, deimost (Mr sry).

Ho god, I can't wait! -My toon's feminine parts are already excited Roll


Aww aren't you cute. More like a moron but hey go ahead and fly that mach. And also It was a FLEET fight. Jesus. Many people were jammed. I suggest you head out to syndicate. Id love to see you in person. What a cry baby *****. People see their winmatar get smacked around and they cry and cry. Personally I don't care about the blaster changes that much. Ill fly gallente regardless. But hey maybe I m just stubborn.


Sry sindicate if for starters, I only fight against big fish and real pvp guys, not eft warriors high sec pussies or 1 vs 10. Lol


Check my sec status dumbass. I haven't been in high sec in years. LOL big fish and eft warriors. God your pathetic. Seriously.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#289 - 2011-11-15 18:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Tara Read wrote:

Check my sec status dumbass. I haven't been in high sec in years. LOL big fish and eft warriors. God your pathetic. Seriously.


Your Evegate profile says: Security Status -9.5. :hi5: (Also, a use for Evegate? wtf?)

-Liang

Ed: Mine's a -9.6 off of mostly logi work. Daaaayyyuuummmm.... you have no idea how much effort it is to plunge your sec status that low off of assistance aggression.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#290 - 2011-11-16 03:34:29 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:

Two extremely competent Rifters could solo that Harby. Besides, a Harby won't be able to catch Rifters: which is my point. An armourcane will do a better job at catching frigs, though unlikely, and have greater survivability. This leads to my main point that you should un-EFT-warrior that fit of yours by having some Warriorss, so a Dram doesn't ruin your day.


I'd actually be really surprised if a pair of Rifters soloed my Binger. I've been in that situation quite a few times too, and I've always won (mostly through them bugging out in low health, but sometimes with the kills too). And that was with Hammerheads. There's tricks for lowering transversal and those Rifters aren't exactly tough targets.

-Liang
I once watched a pair of rifters get owned by a helios. Was pretty funny.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2011-11-16 04:04:03 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ed: Mine's a -9.6 off of mostly logi work. Daaaayyyuuummmm.... you have no idea how much effort it is to plunge your sec status that low off of assistance aggression.


Dang, those hits are tiny; took a day and 2 thorax hulls to get my alt to -6 or so because I caught some pods in a non-SeBo thorax. Podding is the fast track to cool flashing status.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#292 - 2011-11-16 05:13:36 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Check my sec status dumbass. I haven't been in high sec in years. LOL big fish and eft warriors. God your pathetic. Seriously.


Your Evegate profile says: Security Status -9.5. :hi5: (Also, a use for Evegate? wtf?)

-Liang

Ed: Mine's a -9.6 off of mostly logi work. Daaaayyyuuummmm.... you have no idea how much effort it is to plunge your sec status that low off of assistance aggression.


You really are an idiot.... Or a fail troll. 2/10.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#293 - 2011-11-16 05:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Tara Read wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Check my sec status dumbass. I haven't been in high sec in years. LOL big fish and eft warriors. God your pathetic. Seriously.


Your Evegate profile says: Security Status -9.5. :hi5: (Also, a use for Evegate? wtf?)

-Liang

Ed: Mine's a -9.6 off of mostly logi work. Daaaayyyuuummmm.... you have no idea how much effort it is to plunge your sec status that low off of assistance aggression.


You really are an idiot.... Or a fail troll. 2/10.


I honestly have no idea why you're being hostile to me. I was simply providing information on your sec status and some minor commentary/fellow pirate love.

W
T
F

-Liang

Ed: I might have expected something along the lines of "Huh, even a single rat can set you back several fights on your trek to -10". Or :hi5: or ... well, anything but calling it a troll. :confused:

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2011-11-16 05:41:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ed: I might have expected something along the lines of "Huh, even a single rat can set you back several fights on your trek to -10". Or :hi5: or ... well, anything but calling it a troll. :confused:


He quoted the wrong post?
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#295 - 2011-11-17 08:02:59 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Check my sec status dumbass. I haven't been in high sec in years. LOL big fish and eft warriors. God your pathetic. Seriously.


Your Evegate profile says: Security Status -9.5. :hi5: (Also, a use for Evegate? wtf?)

-Liang

Ed: Mine's a -9.6 off of mostly logi work. Daaaayyyuuummmm.... you have no idea how much effort it is to plunge your sec status that low off of assistance aggression.


You really are an idiot.... Or a fail troll. 2/10.


I honestly have no idea why you're being hostile to me. I was simply providing information on your sec status and some minor commentary/fellow pirate love.

W
T
F

-Liang

Ed: I might have expected something along the lines of "Huh, even a single rat can set you back several fights on your trek to -10". Or :hi5: or ... well, anything but calling it a troll. :confused:


Wrong post. Sorry. That and I've had like 10 hours of sleep over 3 days from work x//x
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#296 - 2011-11-17 08:14:33 UTC
Tara Read wrote:


Wrong post. Sorry. That and I've had like 10 hours of sleep over 3 days from work x//x


That sucks - I've definitely been there. I'm busy trying to cram some last minute work in to improve the Black Friday experience right now so I totally get it. I think this is going to be my third or fourth week of 110 hour work weeks (I took Friday -> Sunday off though - woot).

Drive safe if you're driving.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#297 - 2011-11-17 18:25:32 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Wrong post. Sorry. That and I've had like 10 hours of sleep over 3 days from work x//x



Get back when you've got some sleep and stop posting lol stuff.