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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#101 - 2011-11-07 16:21:20 UTC
Hiram Alexander wrote:

I wonder if this change to consumption will make a marked difference to the trading price of Robotics...? I'm a touch unsure whether the drop in 'demand' will be significant enough, but if it is... well now, even more interesting... :)


Depends on the ratio of S/M/L POS towers out there... maybe a 25% reduction in demand for Robotics used as POS fuels. But Robotics are also used in a few other recipes / T2 manufacturing (but POS fuel is probably the primary usage).

Basically, the price of Robotics will always be 10-20% above the component costs, so unless Mech Parts & Consumer Electronics prices also dive, the price won't change.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2011-11-07 16:21:43 UTC
I am actually somewhat unhappy with these changes.

1) Having virtually EVERYTHING anchor and online in seconds is WAY too fast. It would be better, IMO, to allow multiple items to anchor/online at once, or to be able to queue up anchoring/onlining actions around a tower so that you can simply tell the tower where you want everything to be, and it will anchor it for you - freeing you up to go do some other activity instead of having to sit there and baby-sit the thing.

2) How long does it take to anchor/online the control tower itself? I fear that if control towers have the same philosophy of anchoring/onlining in seconds, that POSes will be abused in PvP situations. You just spent billions of ISK in lost ships trying to take down a tech moon POS? Guess what, the enemy was able to anchor and online a new tower - IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT.

On the other hand, allowing towers to be erected quickly might allow POSes to be used tactically in PvP - bring a couple of haulers full of POS mods/fuel/towers and erect a couple of safe havens with which to terrorize your enemy in his home system. This could make for some interesting dynamics in 0.0.

3) Someone correct me if I am wrong, but don't these changes mean that large towers will consume 11% less isotopes (400 instead of 450), 20% less mechanical parts (4 instead of 5), 20% less oxygen (20 instead of 25)? I hope that this reduction in demand will be paired with the bannings of many, many bots.
Elaine Everspark
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#103 - 2011-11-07 16:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Elaine Everspark
How about making one fuel cycle longer on a faction tower ?

So a small tower does 1 block per hour whereas a small tier 1 faction is 1 block per one hour and x minutes?
That way faction towers will keep their value... ?
Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#104 - 2011-11-07 16:22:27 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:

Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375

Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:

Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341
Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354
Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480
Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348
Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs?

And one more thing: Instead of the "half-and-half" baloney, why not just give all existing POS a month's free fuel and have done with it? None of this "HAY! LET'S INCLUDE A NEEDLESSLY STUPID TRANSITIONAL PERIOD THAT MAKES EVERY CORPS LOGISTICS TEAM RUN AROUND LIKE HAMSTERS ON SPEED FOR A WEEK!"

For ONCE, can you stop trying fancy crap and just swap over with a pile of free stuff to make the change easy?

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.

Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2011-11-07 16:22:46 UTC
A suggestion to make it possible to have some towers use less fuel:

While it's hard to change the cycle time of the towers, would it be that hard to introduce 4 new fuel types; "Light fuel block"?

Let these blocks contain 75% of the resources of normal fuel blocks (keep the 1 robotics) and let only faction towers and towers in sov space use it.
Wouldn't that solve the issue?
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#106 - 2011-11-07 16:22:48 UTC
Pavee Lackeen wrote:
So basically you are just adding another step in the fueling process while removing some bonuses?

Doesn't seem like anything was gaining and the drudgery increases.


Seriously, nothing was gained? wtf? It's a HUGE advantage to be able to just buy a couple of blocks and be done with it... No fiddling with numbers, how many of this, how many of that to fill the fuel bay... just get X blocks. MUCH better!
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#107 - 2011-11-07 16:22:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

3) is technically feasible but raises the technical risk sufficiently that it'd have pushed the whole thing back to a nebulous "later release" (again), so we skipped it..


foreach (Tower as T)
{

X = get lowest fuel qty
remove fuel type * QtyPerBlock * X
insert X fuel blocks
move excess fuel to corporation HQ hangar

}

That is so much simpler than making everyone rush around fueling thousands of towers 2-3 times in a month.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2011-11-07 16:25:03 UTC
mkint wrote:
Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel. Of course it'll be good for Greyscale's RMTing friends since they don't actually feed themselves anyway.



oh snap!
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#109 - 2011-11-07 16:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Dant
Devblog wrote:
Turrets, launchers, EW batteries and hardeners now take 5 seconds to anchor/unanchor and 120 seconds to online/offline

As things stand now on TQ, offlining a POS mod is instantaneous. Is the 120 second offline timer in the blog a typo, or an actual change?

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#110 - 2011-11-07 16:25:58 UTC
Largo Coronet wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:

Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375

Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:

Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341
Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354
Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480
Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348
Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs?



No, it assumes a max-CPU, max-PG, non-faction tower in hi-sec. Small towers gain the most from this change, medium towers gain some, and large towers get about 8% cheaper.
Arth Lawing
Penumbra Institute
#111 - 2011-11-07 16:27:59 UTC
Give me back my frugal HW/LO use.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#112 - 2011-11-07 16:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Just to throw my support behind the ideas, as I had them too (they're that obvious):

Large = 400 blocks / hour
Medium = 200 blocks / hour
Small = 100 blocks / hour

Faction towers get a larger fuel bay AND a consumption reduction. SOV holders also get a consumption reduction.

BPO produces 400 blocks per run, and takes 5 minutes per run like all ammo BPO.

Click-drag-drop. Done. Woo cares about small block numbers!

It isn't rocket surgery!
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2011-11-07 16:29:13 UTC
To me this system makes pos fueling much more expensive. I have either to anchor an extra POS to produce blocks, because the production slots are so limited or I have them to buy on market. This system is becomming more annoying.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2011-11-07 16:29:46 UTC
Arth Lawing wrote:
Give me back my frugal HW/LO use.

amen
George K'ntara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2011-11-07 16:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: George K'ntara
Dear CCP Greyscale,

So you can't make a faction POS use only 75% of a fuel block.

How about having the faction towers use the block for 133% longer instead.


For example a normal tower consumes one block every hour. A low grade faction tower consumes one block every 80 minutes. A high grade faction tower consumes one block every 100 minutes.

Is there a reason that wouldn't work?



As a former Highsec Research POS owner, unlike the mighty alliances I was very concerned about my bottom line and used a faction POS for the reduction if fuel costs it gave me.
Ariane VoxDei
#116 - 2011-11-07 16:32:37 UTC
About factions towers, why are you not just doing what seems to be the obvious thing, to retain their fuel efficiency edge:
increasing the time between block consumption.

So regular towers would then cycle every 60m as usual
Faction towers would cycle every 63m or 66m, essentially running 5% or 10% longer on each block.

On the manufacture/market side of things, what were your arguments for making 4 racial blocks instead of say 1 common block and keep the (racial) isotopes a separate thing. It would still leave us with a considerable fuelcompression (unless my spreadsheet is horribly out of date) and great simplification (get 2 types in the right ratios instead of 8), but without tying producers to make a racedependent block.
It seems to me that this would make a much more efficient fuel/blockmarket (efficient competition) and not tie up isotopes in posfuel-blocks.

Trading aside, I am in particularly worried about getting production of said blocks distributed sufficiently to meet demand. The resulting rampup in fuel costs is soso, things will adjust as people rethink what productionhour is worth to them and eventually let the "time and mined minerals are free" dweebs churn them out for them.

(fakeedit, George K'ntara beat me to the postbutton be about a minute)

Ren Adal
Adal Engineering
#117 - 2011-11-07 16:32:50 UTC
Generally speaking I'm very happy with the coming of these fuel blocks.
Removing the Faction tower fuel bonus: no so much...
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#118 - 2011-11-07 16:33:34 UTC
if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide

August Guns
Generic Technologies and Futures Organization
#119 - 2011-11-07 16:34:52 UTC
You can keep faction towers buffed by not only increasing their fuel bays but by also increasing their CPU and PG. Not by a crazy amount, but being able to fit 1/2/4 extra labs on towers or some extra guns would quell most dissent.

Besides faction towers, I like. Creates more industry, lowers costs, less headaches for the end user. This is a good thing.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2011-11-07 16:35:28 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
if this picture has the 4 icons for the fuel blocks, may I suggest changing the colour of the blocks themselves to hues of the racial colours?

The blocks having a different colour will be much more recognisable than their little frames. It's a small thing, but you may as well get the icons right the first time. Usability goes a long way to getting happy customers :)

This is precisely right, this absolutely should get done. Its one of those UI things that's easy to get wrong and EVE has tended to get wrong. Please do this.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.