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Faction Warfare farming has to end - we want war instead of the Cloak & Stabs -game

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Julius Priscus
#21 - 2013-12-09 18:12:57 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Roime wrote:
As everybody knows by now, FW experience has been ruined by allowing low-SP alts in stabbed T1 frigates and empty clones to both farm insane amounts of ISK and affect warzone control.

Instead of fighting each others, the PVP-minded FW pilots are forced to chase farmers out of plexes- endlessly. This is the most frustrating thing I've faced in EVE, and it's now time for CCP to acknowledge the situation.

My corpmate wrote a good blog post that lists the commonly suggested solutions:

- timer rollbacks
- buffing the NPCs
- rebalancing warp core stabs
- cloak prevention mechanism

Currently the farmers risk nearly nothing in space assets, time spent or lost value- cheapest PVE ships possible in game, timers don't reset and there's always a new plex to farm.

If you support fixing FW, post your ideas here, on all relevant forum sections or anywhere, contact your CSM representative or CCP directly. I know I speak for most FW pilots when I say enough is enough, farming has to end. It's up to us to make CCP wake up.


Too many powerful groups are heavily invested in FW farming for CSM, or CCP, to do anything about it.
That being said, if the day comes that CCP does nerf FW LP income, then I imagine they will have already axed incursion income, and High Sec L4 income.



fixed your level 4 remark.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#22 - 2013-12-09 18:33:15 UTC
Well Roime, I would not worry about the faucet being turned on much longer.

I have been grooming a char (I did not realize I could do it with a 3 day char) to join some kind of small gang thing, and FW was definitely on the list.

Rest assured , if I join FW, CCP will then indeed move to nerf it, since they track whatever activity I get my chars into, then promptly nerf that activity.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#23 - 2013-12-09 18:33:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
You could say all of these things or you could say its all boll**ks.

Your choice.
More importantly, you could say all of those things and still be left with the question of “So what?”

Why would the CSM or CCP not do anything about it if it's a problem? What are these powerful groups? How are they keeping CCP from fixing things that are broken?

For the same reason they have made any and every change in the past.....should they never make improvments or balance then you would still have the game we had 10 years ago.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#24 - 2013-12-09 18:34:40 UTC
Oh look.

All these veteran FW pilots have made their ISKies and want to turn the money printer off now.

If you kill the income in FW you're going to set FW back to the stone age that existed before they revamped FW. Most of those farming alts feed PLEXes and ships to the PvP mains. Go ahead and kill FW income so in 6 months time I can come to the forums and see you whining that "LowSec is empty and we have no targets".

FW was irrelevant before the updates and LowSec was a backwater. CCP gave new life to both when they updated FW and later on with exploration. If you want to kill FW, make it so that PvPers have to spend more time doing carebear stuff to afford their ships and become more risk averse as a result.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#25 - 2013-12-09 18:39:35 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:
L4s at T3/4 are surprisingly bad isk/hr, because everyone else is busy crashing the LP price. Right now I'm barely making 400m/hr



You sir get a +1

If you people only new how to disco rat.. The tears will be glorious
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-12-09 18:40:20 UTC
Roime wrote:
Rainbow Dash was rather obviously sarcastic, but FW L4s are not really relevant to this thread- I don't care if FW mission runners make 2bil/hr no matter how broken it is, since their mission running has no effect on system occupancy. The hundreds of stealth bombers flying around are irrelevant.

Disposable plex farming alts, however, can't be ignored. These farmers will eventually push the system vulnerable if left unattended. No RF timers, no PVP, just week old alts orbiting a button.







Isn't this the same type of stuff when people complain about "Disposable Gank Alts"?

So, is there a trend here of disposable alts being a problem in the game?

Or is it just a matter of, people only complain when it is their gameplay that is ****** with?

Enquiring minds want to know.

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#27 - 2013-12-09 18:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Cyber SGB wrote:
Roime wrote:
Rainbow Dash was rather obviously sarcastic, but FW L4s are not really relevant to this thread- I don't care if FW mission runners make 2bil/hr no matter how broken it is, since their mission running has no effect on system occupancy. The hundreds of stealth bombers flying around are irrelevant.

Disposable plex farming alts, however, can't be ignored. These farmers will eventually push the system vulnerable if left unattended. No RF timers, no PVP, just week old alts orbiting a button.







Isn't this the same type of stuff when people complain about "Disposable Gank Alts"?

So, is there a trend here of disposable alts being a problem in the game?

Or is it just a matter of, people only complain when it is their gameplay that is ****** with?

Enquiring minds want to know.


I'm pretty sure the problem here is that people in FW don't like being unable to catch Condors. Like when you have a gang of like 5 frigates and that one Condor warps out... clearly that's OP.

ccp pls nerf conderr.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#28 - 2013-12-09 18:49:58 UTC
Is there a technical hurdle with implementing timer rollbacks? The timer is already there and knows if someone for one faction or both is within range and uncloaked. No one home? Poof back to original time.

+1 for timer rollbacks

P.S. Please make the rats slightly tougher and have them shoot anyone who isn't in their faction that enters the plex.

JUSTK is recruiting
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#29 - 2013-12-09 18:52:54 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Is there a technical hurdle with implementing timer rollbacks? The timer is already there and knows if someone for one faction or both is within range and uncloaked. No one home? Poof back to original time.

+1 for timer rollbacks

P.S. Please make the rats slightly tougher and have them shoot anyone who isn't in their faction that enters the plex.


You should make them jam those people, too. FW plexes should be MILITIA ONLY. Militia race master race.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Dread Delgarth
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#30 - 2013-12-09 19:05:24 UTC
Stabbed, cloaky farmers are the bane of FW.

Is there anything more depressing then getting a Venture on d-scan towards a FW plex? Or you pick up a combat ship on d-scan, warp to the gate and suddenly the ship disappears off your radar - he cloaked as soon as he picked your ship up on short range. Utterly broken mechanics that need one simple fix - timer resets. I honestly think this one change would eliminate most of these plex farmers.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#31 - 2013-12-09 19:14:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
As everybody knows by now, FW experience has been ruined by allowing low-SP alts in stabbed T1 frigates and empty clones to both farm insane amounts of ISK and affect warzone control.

Instead of fighting each others, the PVP-minded FW pilots are forced to chase farmers out of plexes- endlessly. This is the most frustrating thing I've faced in EVE, and it's now time for CCP to acknowledge the situation.

My corpmate wrote a good blog post that lists the commonly suggested solutions:

- timer rollbacks
- buffing the NPCs
- rebalancing warp core stabs
- cloak prevention mechanism

Currently the farmers risk nearly nothing in space assets, time spent or lost value- cheapest PVE ships possible in game, timers don't reset and there's always a new plex to farm.

If you support fixing FW, post your ideas here, on all relevant forum sections or anywhere, contact your CSM representative or CCP directly. I know I speak for most FW pilots when I say enough is enough, farming has to end. It's up to us to make CCP wake up.


I've filed your post in file 13 alongside the gankers are ruining the game and afk cloaking threads. As a neut who has found a few nice kills in and around a fw plex it seems to me that you want your own private play area in the sand box. On the other hand though I would support a full, all out war between the empires.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#32 - 2013-12-09 19:15:30 UTC
Dread Delgarth wrote:
Or you pick up a combat ship on d-scan, warp to the gate and suddenly the ship disappears off your radar - he cloaked as soon as he picked your ship up on short range.


Hm you're right.

I think they should also disable warp drives inside of plexes, cuz targets might warp out, too. That is clearly OP and "depressing". Warp drives should be disabled within 100km of the button until the site is completed.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#33 - 2013-12-09 19:16:11 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Oh look.

All these veteran FW pilots have made their ISKies and want to turn the money printer off now.

If you kill the income in FW you're going to set FW back to the stone age that existed before they revamped FW. Most of those farming alts feed PLEXes and ships to the PvP mains. Go ahead and kill FW income so in 6 months time I can come to the forums and see you whining that "LowSec is empty and we have no targets".

FW was irrelevant before the updates and LowSec was a backwater. CCP gave new life to both when they updated FW and later on with exploration. If you want to kill FW, make it so that PvPers have to spend more time doing carebear stuff to afford their ships and become more risk averse as a result.


Reading is hard, rite

We don't want to "kill FW income". We want to change plexing so that everybody has to actually fight for the plex, or lose the time spent.

You sound like you want FW to be some kind of isk printer for everyone else.

.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#34 - 2013-12-09 19:16:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
On the other hand though I would support a full, all out war between the empires.


Something tells me you will not be disappointed on that one.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#35 - 2013-12-09 19:22:34 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Roime wrote:
I don't care if FW mission runners make 2bil/hr no matter how broken it is, since their mission running has no effect on system occupancy.


You're blind if you think it doesn't contribute. Even the stealth bombers like riding the gravy train; who do you think keeps those ihubs crammed with LP for so long? Hint: It's not the plex farmers that have nothing to do but d-plex after two weeks.

Ultimately, you're quite correct that the root of the problem is low barrier of entry and the incredibly broken payouts associated with plex farming. But it leads to other problems that also need correction in the long run.

Personally, I don't believe that high warzone tier should be the only factor in high payouts.

There needs to be an actual loyalty system incorporated, so that time served and actions taken are also a factor; you will never get rid of farmers completely, but you can limit them to the dregs of FW rewards, and save the good stuff for people who stay and contribute to the PvP element.


Ahhem, they aren't your rewards, they are the rewards of whoever can get them, just like a ninja salvager stealing a mission runners loot. They only belong to you when they are in your hanger.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#36 - 2013-12-09 19:40:05 UTC
Roime wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Oh look.

All these veteran FW pilots have made their ISKies and want to turn the money printer off now.

If you kill the income in FW you're going to set FW back to the stone age that existed before they revamped FW. Most of those farming alts feed PLEXes and ships to the PvP mains. Go ahead and kill FW income so in 6 months time I can come to the forums and see you whining that "LowSec is empty and we have no targets".

FW was irrelevant before the updates and LowSec was a backwater. CCP gave new life to both when they updated FW and later on with exploration. If you want to kill FW, make it so that PvPers have to spend more time doing carebear stuff to afford their ships and become more risk averse as a result.


Reading is hard, rite

We don't want to "kill FW income". We want to change plexing so that everybody has to actually fight for the plex, or lose the time spent.

You sound like you want FW to be some kind of isk printer for everyone else.


Reading is hard, because I clearly was not responding to the various posts in this thread calling for a nerf to FW income.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#37 - 2013-12-09 19:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

I've filed your post in file 13 alongside the gankers are ruining the game and afk cloaking threads. As a neut who has found a few nice kills in and around a fw plex it seems to me that you want your own private play area in the sand box. On the other hand though I would support a full, all out war between the empires.


Cool, I've also found a few nice kills in and around fw plexes.

Not really sure where you got the idea of us demanding a private area in the sand box. FW space is not restricted, and that is a major selling point for it, it creates the most target rich area in New Eden, open for everyone.

To be clear:

What we want is PVP combat to decide who gets LP rewards. We want everyone to fight for plexes, not orbit the button with stabbed, cloaky disposable ships with multiboxed trial alts. If you warp out or cloak, the timer should reset.

I really don't think this is unreasonable or selfish- this was the whole purpose of FW plexes in the first place, to facilitate PVP engagements. And with minor fixes, that is exactly what they would do.

.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-12-09 19:44:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Well Roime, I would not worry about the faucet being turned on much longer.

I have been grooming a char (I did not realize I could do it with a 3 day char) to join some kind of small gang thing, and FW was definitely on the list.

Rest assured , if I join FW, CCP will then indeed move to nerf it, since they track whatever activity I get my chars into, then promptly nerf that activity.


You too? I trained up a link alt only to have it nerfed just after I was done. Have 3 chars training for T3s now. Can't wait for the rebalance.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#39 - 2013-12-09 19:46:24 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Ahhem, they aren't your rewards, they are the rewards of whoever can get them, just like a ninja salvager stealing a mission runners loot. They only belong to you when they are in your hanger.


They're not my rewards at all, since I no longer participate in FW due to the cancer being discussed in this thread.

And last I checked, I've never had a single LP show up in my hangar.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#40 - 2013-12-09 19:50:30 UTC
I spent just over a week in FW, popped a few ships, shot at a few structures, sat in space a lot, and got yelled at by my own militia for closing a plex.

And then another time I got scolded for maintaining range and not warping straight into the middle of the wannabe blob. Who had control during that single engagement? I did. You're welcome.

Really wanted to enjoy it, but didn't. I support making it better.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫