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Can we do something about the idiots in highsec already CCP?

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Author
LOL BOB111
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-11-05 15:54:35 UTC
I agree with the OP it is kind of ridiculous that you can spend all this time in low/null dealing with actual PvPers, and then once you're back in hisec you have to worry about noob alts in catalysts every time you go near a 0.5 on your way to offload high value stuff. And then we get this new-order code chestbeating crap everywhere that's lamer than an a Provi RPer. IMO the bar for ganking is just a bit too low in terms of SP, isk and organization required. At least when gankers use alpha tornadoes or other battlecruisers they need a bit of SP, and the isk investment is significant enough to require a bit of thoughtful target selection.

Also, the current mechanics involving plastic wrap are in a wierd place, with it being available to anyone, but only if they spend a bunch of time clicking through contracts. But even with gank catas are cheap enough for that to not be much of a deterrent.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#122 - 2013-11-05 15:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
they want your tears. give it to them they'll want more.

but they won't notice you'ce set your CSPA charge to 1,000,000.

shame you can't collect Oops

forums.  serious business.

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-11-05 16:04:08 UTC
Clyde Belvar wrote:

Dude if you got lucky by not being ganked its cool,but don't call someone stupid because he got ganked,in 2 years i was ganked once in last 4 days i was ganked 4 times,is that normal?Check how many corps alliances are doing only ganking now,before there was just goons.Check how many freighters and indies are being killed now.Only thing i am asking is for game to be fair for everyone,why you so against changes on ganking?


I wouldn't say stupid, but obviously you are doing something wrong. I too have been ganked, once. Then I learned all about how he did it... from him. He was a super nice guy. Now I routinely ship hundreds of millions in sleeper loot to hisec hubs and never get ganked.

If you don't want to get ganked, there are a few simple things you can do to reduce the risk to almost 0. What you first have to do is learn the tactics of your enemy. How do they spot targets, what ships and weapons do they use and how many gankers does it take to kill X ehp. The gankers have all long since worked this out. They did the homework. If you are unwilling to do your share of the homework, how can you expect to be safe from them?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#124 - 2013-11-05 16:04:47 UTC
I've seen some ganks.
I've heard raeg on comms when corpie afk'd his hauler with loki hulls n subs, got ganked in Bereye.
I've disco-phooned and read the waves of hatemails from people who 'don't care'but want to tell me i'm a bad person.
But nothing is as violent as reading an Infinity Ziona thread where he gets shot to slivers by anyone with half a clue and the slightest insight.
It's terrible.
Terrible.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-11-05 16:04:58 UTC
The problem with suicide ganking is that it happens in an instant. The victim is literally unable to do anything about the fact he's getting suicide ganked once it has started. You can't try to maneuver back to the gate or get out of point range, you're literally dead within seconds. This is due to Concord's mechanics as they'll blap the gankers in 5 seconds, so the gankers will try to blap you in less than that.

The solution would probably be to somehow decrease all damage taken from gankers by like 75%, decrease Concord damage by like 75%, and have a running battle that occurs when a gank commences. It allows the miner/freighter to do some last minute actions that may save them, it provides time for neutrals in system to save the ganked freighter/miner, and maybe the ganker would be able to escape Concord's point if they did not kill any target. (Concord would point anybody who has aggressed, but only infini-point the person who had the final blow)

It should also emphasize decent fits on gankers because crappy t1 destroyer fits will still get blown out of the water in a couple of seconds, but real fits with tank and not jsut gank will survive longer to put out decent DPS.





Crimewatch also needs a look at. So a ganker can't kill someone and be neutral 20 minutes later to kill someone else. It should have a lasting mark on your record.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2013-11-05 16:09:33 UTC
LOL BOB111 wrote:
I agree with the OP it is kind of ridiculous that you can spend all this time in low/null dealing with actual PvPers,


The OP spends all his time in null running anoms in CFC jumpover country so highsec gankers are probably the only "real pvpers" that take much of an interest in him.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2013-11-05 16:13:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

At the moment all it requires is a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt account.

This is not the game that you guys designed, I have been here since the beginning and when things did get to the point that this sort of rubbish was happening, you adjusted Concord or you adjusted DPS or EHP.


A full t2 Catalyst with 700 DPS cost about 2 months training and a 50-100 million pod if I'm not mistaken, a T2 catalyst costs around 10 million isk. 2 months of dedicated training, 50-100 million on implants and ship prices at 10 million. That's not horribly cheap or low skill in my book.

And for your information: when destroyers were buffed to the point that you indeed could rip through a barge with a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt, barges were buffed with more EHP. Sure, if you go full untanked (or ANTI-tanked with stuff such as cargohold extenders which really don't have any place on a mingin ship anymore) yield hulk in 0.5, a t1 cata is still able to blow you out of space. If you choose to get a full tanked Skiff however, you're going to need about 10 full t2 cata's in 0.5.

It's not like you don't have a choice. Same goes with your autopiloting a shuttle. A freakin' shuttle! The most paperthin way of traveling save doing it in you bare pod and you are upset/surprised you didn't make it, hm.... There is a reason why CCP never made the autopilot just warp to 0 but it lands you 15 km of the gate. That reason is risk. You want the convenience of traveling AFK? Sure, but it'll be riskier than manually flying your ship.

Being a 2008 player, I've only seen hi sec become much safer in general. No need for can mining, L4 missioning in very high sec sytems, being able to fit a battleship tank on your mining boat and STILL have decent yield and so on and so on. I really don't see what's there to complain about....
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-11-05 16:17:45 UTC
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
It's not like you don't have a choice. Same goes with your autopiloting a shuttle. A freakin' shuttle! The most paperthin way of traveling save doing it in you bare pod and you are upset/surprised you didn't make it, hm.... There is a reason why CCP never made the autopilot just warp to 0 but it lands you 15 km of the gate. That reason is risk. You want the convenience of traveling AFK? Sure, but it'll be riskier than manually flying your ship.


basically you watch netflix while manually jumping to escape the people watching netflix trying to kill you.

I suppose my interest in this is not neccesarily making highsec nice and safe for me but maybe getting a chance to pee/eat before resuming my unblinking stare upon the redeemer.

maybe i'll lose weight though Lol

forums.  serious business.

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-11-05 16:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
The problem with suicide ganking is that it happens in an instant. The victim is literally unable to do anything about the fact he's getting suicide ganked once it has started....


He should have done something about it before he undocked. The gankers did all the work beforehand to set up the hit. Most victims think of the fight as starting when the ganker locks and presses F1. In reality, the fight is over at that point, the only thing left is rolling the dice to see what loot drops. The fight started several minutes before that, its just the victims didn't realize it.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2013-11-05 16:25:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its getting old. Every second or third jump there are idiot alts in destroyers ganking people. My computer almost died yesterday loading hundreds of concord ships at a high sec gate. Spending weeks in null dodging Goons and then come back to supposedly safe space and its more of the same crap.

You guys changed siphons because they were too cheap and griefer like for the big alliances after their big whine fest. Man up and do something about the state of high sec and their alt gankers.

No I haven't been ganked but its annoying to have to make every single high sec jump and not be able to afk at all in "safe space" even in a crappy non faction fitted frigate and its annoying to see people killing other people in high sec with no risk in cheap lame ass destroyers - make them work for it, this is EvE Online, its not Counterstrike.

Killing other players should require skill, it should require brains, it should require risk and it should require a war dec or going to low sec or null sec.

At the moment all it requires is a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt account.

This is not the game that you guys designed, I have been here since the beginning and when things did get to the point that this sort of rubbish was happening, you adjusted Concord or you adjusted DPS or EHP.

Time to fix your game in this respect, its crap and broken.


If you died that means the killers had more brain and skill than you . Simple
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2013-11-05 16:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fey Ivory
i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying...

Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying, the problem is the corsepondance of what doing crimes in highsec entails, if you do it, you get punished, and the punishment should allways be in such a way that it actually hurts, and not just for those that just have started playing the game, wich points us back to what OP is trying to say... there is no punishment in highsec, if you have the means to cover the looses, for suicide ganks, wich makes the whole idea with, you >should< get punished in highsec if you violate its rules, void Roll

Make a idiot proof system, and someone will invent a better idiot !
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#132 - 2013-11-05 16:28:30 UTC
Digits Kho wrote:
If you died that means the killers had more brain and skill than you . Simple

Oh, if that only was true... in EVE or IRL. Roll

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#133 - 2013-11-05 16:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
OP, ganking is viable style of gameplay in PVP environment. I learned it from other PVP oriented games with open PVP world. You can't change that. Yes, high sec is PVP arena too. Kind of special arena.

In AOC we had whole raids clashing in Kheshatta and other areas. Fighting for dominance over the area. Spawn ganking was common sight.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-11-05 16:33:59 UTC
WAAAHHHWAAAHHH I GOT KILLED WAAAHHH

Alternatively:

WAAAAHHHH WAAAAHHHH YOU DUNNO HOW TO PLAY THE GAME RIGHT WWAAAAAHHHH

Or:

WAAAAHHH CCP Y U NO MAKE GOOD GAME FOR US LOSERS WAAAHHHH
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2013-11-05 16:34:34 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying...

Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying,


But it is. The OP wants to autopilot billions of isk worth of cargo all over empire. That's idiotic.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2013-11-05 16:37:32 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Digits Kho wrote:
If you died that means the killers had more brain and skill than you . Simple

Oh, if that only was true... in EVE or IRL. Roll

Sir, most ships in eve are lost due to mistakes / laziness / inattentiveness
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-11-05 16:37:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

If I recall correctly, spawning concord on top of yourself to use them as protection is not allowed. Which is hilarious.


It's one of those things that aren't completely clear. Years ago I saw some CCP employee claiming ANY manipulation of CONCORD was illegal but I've seen different rulings since that one.

Even if it isn't legal, who's going to keep track so *shrugz*.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2013-11-05 16:48:41 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:
i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying...

Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying,


But it is. The OP wants to autopilot billions of isk worth of cargo all over empire. That's idiotic.


im not going to comment on using auto pilot Blink, lets just say its a feature i never ewer use... The issue really is that if you have the means, like your organisation and many other organisations in EvE, you can bascially ignore the punishment that should come with suicide ganking in highsec

It is said that Alexander the great cried, tears of salt, when he realiced there were no more worlds to conquer... hats of to you goons, unlike many i think you guys spice up this game, and add a alive factor, but that said, high sec, should allways be rigid and have that punishment, and it should hurt ALL equally, no matter what, its needed for EvE.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#139 - 2013-11-05 16:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Digits Kho wrote:
Sir, most ships in eve are lost due to mistakes / laziness / inattentiveness

Sir... RollBlink

I'm not saying that isn't true... what I'm saying is: The market is changing, and gamers are changing... folks like Solstice may not really care about that, but the small and "cozy" playerbase CCP has gathered here will not be forever, and the way the game is right now, I don't see much new blood coming to fill the ranks.

Also: The game HAS been going in a... "worrying" direction for the last couple of months... there is no denying that.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-11-05 17:06:55 UTC
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

At the moment all it requires is a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt account.

This is not the game that you guys designed, I have been here since the beginning and when things did get to the point that this sort of rubbish was happening, you adjusted Concord or you adjusted DPS or EHP.


A full t2 Catalyst with 700 DPS cost about 2 months training and a 50-100 million pod if I'm not mistaken, a T2 catalyst costs around 10 million isk. 2 months of dedicated training, 50-100 million on implants and ship prices at 10 million. That's not horribly cheap or low skill in my book.

Shocked

i prepared my alt in spare time for like 2-3 weeks. He had 2 +3 implants (for training) and one for +3% for damage (i could be wrong but i think i didn't insert it after all).
And he was able to make like 700DPS from T2 Catalyst.


The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"