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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

First post First post First post
Author
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#241 - 2013-10-17 18:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
mynnna wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
Alright:

this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.

instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:

i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.


hahaha look at these goon tears so delicio


hey


wait


Mynna just gtffo from CSM, you are so biased.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#242 - 2013-10-17 18:08:38 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
You are in a small corp so you'd know all about it.


We know all about griefing small corporations. Your 33 man corp operate from 1400 to 2100, exclusively. Lots of time if we find one of your moons doing reactions.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#243 - 2013-10-17 18:09:42 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?

you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?

seems much more managable...

still not any sort of pvp, it's "notice structure, pop structure"


if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.

more people = more targets = more regular pvp...

though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#244 - 2013-10-17 18:09:48 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

granted that sov needs to be reworked much like they did with FW...

this is our basic point. this would be a neat feature with a sov rework. but they're not going to actually do that. they're going to push it off until SOON(tm) along with the use for sov4 and sov5, all of the iterations on ihubs that would supposedly come, the last t3 subsystem, the 'farms and fields', the pos revamp, and anything else that might actually improve 0.0

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#245 - 2013-10-17 18:10:23 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
IrJosy wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Vatek wrote:

Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.



so you are saying that 0.0 will have to be populated to be profitable? and this is somehow a bad thing?

i think its great...

you guys can be like the mob providing protection against actual pos attacks for a montly fee.

its a win win for everyone involved...

space gets filled people make isk and i get to kill people ratting.

dont see the problem really.


How many New York Times articles have brought new players to the game with the headline: "Eve Online: An online spaceship game where you pay space protection money to live in a world completely devoid of conflict" ?


how will this be devoid of conflict? from my perspective it will increase the conflics. i wonder what would happen if you found out that one of your allies are the ones who are using thier alts to steel your moon mins... that could lead to some epic drama and that is where conflict drivers come from... human interaction.

granted that sov needs to be reworked much like they did with FW...


Except not. This is just AWOXing in another form and has been a drama free mechanic in null for years now. Boot, reimburse, move on.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#246 - 2013-10-17 18:11:34 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.

more people = more targets = more regular pvp...

though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds?


Yeah, shooting ratters, quality pvp there.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#247 - 2013-10-17 18:11:50 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.

more people = more targets = more regular pvp...

though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds?

a game where the highest form of combat is ganking a renter every so often is a boring, stagnated game

don't get me wrong the loss of low-level ganking has been a problem but renting is a ****** way to solve it because it makes actual high-level combat die off

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#248 - 2013-10-17 18:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Kahega Amielden wrote:
I think the intention is that roaming gangs can dump them and the sov holders have an incentive to come out and stop them.

Not really. Due to the rate these work, you need to wait several hours for any results. This only encourages dropping siphons, cloaking AFK in the system, playing a better game for a few hours, and returning to scoop the loot. Since the siphons fit in literally anything and don't require any level of protection or setup time, there is no need to have a gang with you to set them up.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#249 - 2013-10-17 18:19:48 UTC
Sounds great! I look forward to trying these out. Will be awesome to finally have a way as a smaller entity to cause damage to a larger one that doesn't take efforts to monitor it's assets.

The flood of whiny pos owners too used to afk income makes it even better.

The suggestions of having to sit at a tower for 23 hours are hilarious, but a false dichotomy between afk or full attendance. If you have members using your space there will be little impact. Neutrals (I hope) would be reported in your moon systems, maybe once every few hours someone runs a dscan, tough work I know, and the idea that 2 minutes to destroy the syphon and secure your assets is too much work is pathetic.

Can't wait for these to roll out on tq. I am only hoping that just because a very large entity whines a lot you don't go back on your vision of guerilla warfare going forward.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#250 - 2013-10-17 18:21:10 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Smaller alliances and corps don't own moons.
Some exception here and there


A lot of smaller alliances and corps do run reactions though.


Yeah Null alliances alts. All others still fit in the exception.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Farrell Jay
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2013-10-17 18:22:37 UTC
These would have been really useful when moon mining was the primary source of income for a large portion of 0.0 alliances, it seems a little strange that this would be introduced now at a time when rental income far outweighs any profit that can be made from moons. Unless ccp introduces a module that siphons rental income (that would be awesome btw) I don't think this concept will have a major impact in the foreseeable future.
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2013-10-17 18:22:55 UTC
HEY CCP TOTAL DISCLAIMER HERE

WE'RE GOING TO ABUSE THIS FOR ABSURD TRILLIONS IN PROFITS

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

DON'T BE ALL LIKE "WELL THAT'S TOO MUCH MONEY SO YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT BACK" LIKE YOU DID WITH FOREX


YOU

HAVE

BEEN

WARNED

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

Benjamin Hamburg
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2013-10-17 18:23:07 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
This actually hurts small operations way worse.

1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.

Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he?


Since when GSF care for one man corp operation? Is that has anything to do with the fact half of nullsec is currently owned by CFC? Coincidence.
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2013-10-17 18:23:42 UTC
You can't say we didn't try.

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#255 - 2013-10-17 18:24:30 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.

more people = more targets = more regular pvp...

though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds?


Yeah, shooting ratters, quality pvp there.


It is for me... kill enough of them and they start forming defense fleets. .. so there is potential for increased small scale pvp... plus I thought goons loved killing miners and frieghters snd such so is this not right up your alley?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Brienna Torsti
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#256 - 2013-10-17 18:25:04 UTC
I'm going to have so much fun spamming these around regions.

It's going to be great. Anchor them, forget about them, annoy someone somewhere who's doing a 1 man operation.
Minimum effort griefing.


But please, CCP. The API is utterly ****** as it is... Fix it before breaking it on purpose.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#257 - 2013-10-17 18:25:29 UTC
- Big nullsec alliances crying...check
- Small entities joying...check

Feature is good to go :D

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2013-10-17 18:25:50 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

I think the intention is that roaming gangs can dump them and the sov holders have an incentive to come out and stop them.



they don't need any kind of protection to be set up and there is no fixed time where they can be emptied

Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#259 - 2013-10-17 18:28:51 UTC
mynnna wrote:
This isn't a bad mechanic, it's just mistimed. The tools and and incentives to want to willingly live in a smaller footprint, don't exist, and so mechanics and meta dictate that to not spread as far as you are able is to allow your enemy to do it instead. But instead of fixing that, creating those tools and incentives, and then introducing them at the same time as things like this, CCP is just hauling back and aiming a big kick in the balls at anyone playing by the current rules.

Spouting off that the solution is to just do that anyway is foolish and naive.


Oh, now that's interesting.

It seems that you're hinting at unannounced CCP plans to change null so that we end up with smaller, more concentrated entities, while incentivizing more players to come to null?

That would be a good thing.

A very good thing.

If that's so, I wish they'd expand on those plans :-)




Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#260 - 2013-10-17 18:29:23 UTC
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:

Since when GSF care for one man corp operation? Is that has anything to do with the fact half of nullsec is currently owned by CFC? Coincidence.

It does. We're basically out of people to kill, and 0.0 is getting fairly stagnant and boring.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.