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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#221 - 2013-10-17 17:58:06 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Just lol...

Ohhhh...My first 10 urns are capped. Need more for these Goons tears.


I believe this post, and the Marlona posts, make my point quite well. There's no solid arguments about why these are well-balanced being presented. The sole argument being presented is the same one we always see when a goon is correctly pointing out something that's unbalanced: some nitwit saying, well, the above. You saw it with blap titans, for example.


I posted quite few reasons. Just read around, You will find then :DD

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#222 - 2013-10-17 17:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I predict a LOT of drag bubbles and empty noob ships left at the predicted points of impact to decloak cloaked siphon dropper ships.

*goes to jita to corner the market on anchorable bubbles*
Mildew Wolf
#223 - 2013-10-17 17:59:01 UTC
Grrr griefers
Decoval Ambraelle
Doomheim
#224 - 2013-10-17 17:59:48 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
I think the price is right, but the size is too small. Not every moon in the game is a R32 or R64.

They should be at least 120M3 so the soon to be uncatchable interceptors can't carry 6 or more in their holds.

if you don't want to check 1000 posses, than don't and find out if they're siphones when you empty them....

I like the goon posing CTA though



and 113 goons like you
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#225 - 2013-10-17 18:01:22 UTC
xttz wrote:
It should be a bit of a red flag when CCP come up with the cheapest griefing tool in EVE for years, and GoonSwarm are the ones saying "hang on that's a bit much".

What exactly do you lot think this is going to do to the Tech 2 market when virtually no one is getting moon materials without interruption? We are actually in by far the best position, in that we have a bunch of newbies who will run around finding and killing these things for a bounty. Can smaller alliances and corps say that?

The Tech 2 materials market has just been handed back to big alliances. We're going to grief the **** out of everyone if this remains unchanged, and make bank while doing so.


Smaller alliances and corps don't own moons.
Some exception here and there

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Decoval Ambraelle
Doomheim
#226 - 2013-10-17 18:01:28 UTC
elaborated opinions stated above - i for one congratulate ccp for this bold desicion to give some death taste to the afk population of eve =)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#227 - 2013-10-17 18:01:41 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i see it as as a shift to more pvp... for small gangs and roaming gangs...

unless you see shooting renters as grinding?


...explain which part of the process is meaningful PvP?

POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
Cloaky hauler enters system, drops siphon, cloaks.
POS alt logs in, sees siphon, blaps it with POS guns, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.


you forgot

POS alt flys to siphon, picks up stuff and flys back to POS

he at least has to leave the POS shields, one could call this a PVP opportunity


how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?

you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?

seems much more managable...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#228 - 2013-10-17 18:02:25 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
This actually hurts small operations way worse.

1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.

Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he?

You are in a small corp so you'd know all about it.

Nyan
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#229 - 2013-10-17 18:03:45 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Smaller alliances and corps don't own moons.
Some exception here and there


A lot of smaller alliances and corps do run reactions though.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#230 - 2013-10-17 18:03:49 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
This actually hurts small operations way worse.

1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.

Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he?

You actually think there are a lot of small 1man corps mining expensive moons in Null? Smile

Now in low sec you'll see more of them, but they'll be doing alchemy... which at least currently is not affected. In fact, they should greatly benefit.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#231 - 2013-10-17 18:04:40 UTC
I'm not sure i get the argument that this change is mistimed because the incentives don't exist for alliances to live in a smaller space. Surely this mechanic makes it more difficult to spread out everywhere (and fund it with moon goo), and thus constitutes an incentive to live in a smaller space?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#232 - 2013-10-17 18:05:01 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?

you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?

seems much more managable...

still not any sort of pvp, it's "notice structure, pop structure"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#233 - 2013-10-17 18:05:41 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
I'm not sure i get the argument that this change is mistimed because the incentives don't exist for alliances to live in a smaller space. Surely this mechanic makes it more difficult to spread out everywhere (and fund it with moon goo), and thus constitutes an incentive to live in a smaller space?

Nope. What it means is, we spread out more (to counteract the moongoo income loss) and then rent it out as that's the only other source of alliance income.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#234 - 2013-10-17 18:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kismeteer
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
This actually hurts small operations way worse.

1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.

Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he?

You actually think there are a lot of small 1man corps mining expensive moons in Null? Smile

Now in low sec you'll see more of them, but they'll be doing alchemy... which at least currently is not affected. In fact, they should greatly benefit.


Who said anything about Null? Sure, it can be null. It can be [strike]high[/strike] low sec too, if you're dead-ending any simple reaction.

e: meant to say low sec, oops.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#235 - 2013-10-17 18:06:16 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i see it as as a shift to more pvp... for small gangs and roaming gangs...

unless you see shooting renters as grinding?


...explain which part of the process is meaningful PvP?

POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
Cloaky hauler enters system, drops siphon, cloaks.
POS alt logs in, sees siphon, blaps it with POS guns, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.
POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off.

I can see your problem.

Nyan
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#236 - 2013-10-17 18:06:52 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
IrJosy wrote:
If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters!



well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing...

like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.

No, it's a shift from income based on PvP to income based on grinding and wasting time.

You forget, to use a siphon you'll be trying to run a blockade runner into the area on a daily basis. So yes, there will be some PVP involved.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#237 - 2013-10-17 18:07:24 UTC
IrJosy wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Vatek wrote:

Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.



so you are saying that 0.0 will have to be populated to be profitable? and this is somehow a bad thing?

i think its great...

you guys can be like the mob providing protection against actual pos attacks for a montly fee.

its a win win for everyone involved...

space gets filled people make isk and i get to kill people ratting.

dont see the problem really.


How many New York Times articles have brought new players to the game with the headline: "Eve Online: An online spaceship game where you pay space protection money to live in a world completely devoid of conflict" ?


how will this be devoid of conflict? from my perspective it will increase the conflics. i wonder what would happen if you found out that one of your allies are the ones who are using thier alts to steel your moon mins... that could lead to some epic drama and that is where conflict drivers come from... human interaction.

granted that sov needs to be reworked much like they did with FW...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Vatek
Rents Due Crew
#238 - 2013-10-17 18:07:28 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
This actually hurts small operations way worse.

1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.

Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he?

You actually think there are a lot of small 1man corps mining expensive moons in Null? Smile

Now in low sec you'll see more of them, but they'll be doing alchemy... which at least currently is not affected. In fact, they should greatly benefit.


Who said anything about Null? Sure, it can be null. It can be high sec too, if you're dead-ending any simple reaction.


You cannot run reactions in highsec.
Gardaz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#239 - 2013-10-17 18:08:12 UTC
Excellent work CCP, the API fudge is clever and obviously a must for this feature.

Also the troll level towards entities holding huge numbers of goo towers in largely uninhabited space is lovely Twisted
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#240 - 2013-10-17 18:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Weaselior wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?

you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?

seems much more managable...

still not any sort of pvp, it's "notice structure, pop structure"


With regards to AFK cloaking and dumping these: keep in mind that the people dumping these are spending considerable time (and some risk, if they're using something like a BR to do this and run into a giant camp) to suck up the moon goo. I'm no doctor but that may not be worth the time.

I think the intention is that roaming gangs can dump them and the sov holders have an incentive to come out and stop them.

Quote:
Nope. What it means is, we spread out more (to counteract the moongoo income loss) and then rent it out as that's the only other source of alliance income.


So you're telling me that the only reason Goons haven't spread out more already is...What? You guys just decided you didn't want that space anyway?

Furthermore, I'm sure CCP would see more rented space and less directly owned by large alliances as a plus. They did state their intention with Dominion was more people living out of nullsec.