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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

First post First post First post
Author
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#921 - 2013-10-17 20:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Argus Sorn
Herr Kutz wrote:
In response to this terrible assumption that isk for clicking a link and buying a GTC is RMT, there is a simple and CLEAR separation.

(Not in order, just read it ffs)

1. SOMER Blink sets up lottery site
2. Markee Dragon sets up GTC selling site
3. Markee Dragon pays SOMER the person RL money for promoting their site

THE END.

It doesn't matter that SOMER is rewarding their patrons with "blink credit". They are being paid for a service provided to Markee Dragon.

This is borne out by the numerous posts claiming that it wouldn't be a problem/wouldn't be RMT if SOMER wasn't giving out credit which can be converted to in game isk.

In case you wonder, this is the opinion of many people who don't frequent the forums who I've spoken to about this. Will they respond to some poll/q'airre? Not a chance.

Doesn't mean their (our) opinion is any less valid than those couple of dozen people who have been spamming this thread for all they're worth.


The essence of RMT'ing is that someone converts in game currency into cash (or a cash equivalent). Each time someone buys a GTC from SOMER, SOMER effectively converts 200 million of real isk into whatever they receive in cash for their referrals. Each step you talk about is a completely legal transaction - correct.

It is when SOMER gives you isk for clicking the button that the RMT occurs. ISK is converted to cash by this system. The whole reason SOMER gives you isk is because it makes them money.

Let me ask you this. If you could turn around and use SOMER bonus isk to outright BUY things (technically you can but it's tough to be fast enough on SOMER, it can definitely be done on EVE-GAMES from what I've seen), would that be RMT?

By the way I am not trolling or being flippant or disrespectful, I am genuinely interested in and respect your opinion here.

Or one step further: can I give someone actual ISK, real isk, for buying GTC's from me? Buy a GTC from me and I give you 200 million isk. Is that RMT?

Because, basically what you are arguing is that because they are paid for the sale of the GTC and not directly for the sale of the isk, they are not RMT'ing. I respect that viewpoint. However, if that is true then I should be able to just cut out all of the voodoo and give away real isk to people who buy GTC's from me and I am not sure that is something CCP wants to see happen.

If you concede that should be allowable, then by all means - that is indeed your opinion and I will respect it. And CCP may agree with you. And if they do, there will probably be quite a few referral programs opening. Actually it would be great for all of the folks who are considering leaving the game as we'd have a 100% legal way to cash out. Maybe not the most profitable, but at least its legal.
Frying Doom
#922 - 2013-10-17 21:01:07 UTC
If it is legal to offer pretend isk that is convertible into real isk (oh and you can chose all of the blinks when you set the auction your self) with the purchase of a GTC. CCP would be in a very hard position to stop any transaction that comes with fake convertible isk.

So allow me to be the first to say "Welcome to all the Chinese isk farmers", because if this is correct we will soon be buying pens or other merchandise in exchange for isk (well fake isk, but if you can just change it into isk anyway, it is just the same thing).

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#923 - 2013-10-17 21:02:06 UTC
From this thread:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Two Step better yet

1. I just sold a GTC to a guy for $2500.00 I gave him 2500 black credits.

2. I just sold another guy a GTC for $17.00 and gave him 2 black credits

3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.

4. I all ready held the drawing and the winner will be announced soon.

5. I will be starting the legal transfer on the charcter form today.

6. Thank you CCP I made $ 2502 dollars enjoy your 30.00 dollars.

7. I did this with no website.

...and then this:
DNSBLACK wrote:
1. Net gain $2475.00.

2. Would like to thank all of you for posting and helping me sell my GTC and black credits. The bumps and advertising was awesome.

3. Please watch the character Bazaar for the final transfer according to all the rules.

So either I got trolled big-time or that really just happened.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#924 - 2013-10-17 21:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Guys keep it up. iam glad CCP has delayed I just sold DNSBlack thru my raffle site and banked $2475.00.

1. Step One I went and purchased 2 / 60 day GTC

2. Thru this web site and forum post I had interested people inquire about my raffle. (One of the guys was a collector of eve famous people and he wanted my character bad.)

3. Player X purchased a 1 /60 day GTC off of DNS Corp for $2500.00 dollars. I used Pay Pal proxy service for all money exchange. Cost of GTC was 30.00 dollars. For buying my GTC I gave him $2470 DNS Credits

4. Player Y purchased 1 / 60 day GTC off of DNS Corp for $32.00 dollars. I used Pay Pal proxy service for all money exchange Cost of GTC was $30.00 dollars. For buying my GTC I gave her $2 DNS CREDITS

5. I then open the raffle purchasing window and there were 2472 available. They could purchase as many tickets as they like using their DNS credits.

6. The raffle game was sold out in a blink.

7. I then invited them to watch my twitch TV channel and had them join me on eve voice. It was so exciting

9. Each person on the raffle watched me put ther tickets into a official state lottery tumbler.

10. I Then invited my friend over who was a notary to witness the drawing.

11. I then pick the winning ticket live on Twitch TV and player X won.

12. Sorry I had to go old school with my lottery and some of you didn't get the chance to participate.

14. I will be transferring the character IE DNSBlack to his new owner over the next 3 days. So if you see him posting in any of these threads it is not me.

15. I would like to thank CCP for making me a trusted partner over the last 7 years. I hope the 60 dollars of game time codes helps you build your business.

16. I would like to thank the owner of EVE.GAMES.NET who is also a trusted ccp site for this

"Thanks for your reply, while I do understand and respect your opinion... I can't set my sites policies based on your interpretation of the EULA. I set policy from CCP's interpretation of the EULA.
I have yet to see an argument that convinces me that what I and other sites are doing is RMT, and so far....neither has CCP

As I have stated previously, if CCP changes the language or asks me to stop the program. I will comply immediately.

I also wanted to say, to those that have stated they are so enraged by this that they are quitting the game....STOP, there's no need to do anything drastic. Give CCP time to work out a resolution to this question, whatever that might be. I have been playing this game for years and love it and I can tell from your passion regarding this topic that you love it too."

Removed false claims of CCP support - CCP Falcon
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#925 - 2013-10-17 21:23:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
The skillet is hot guys time to cash in on the legal way to make money on in game stuff. All you have to do is make sure you get your players to buy GTC first; that way CCP has to get there cut. I didn't have time to become a third party so I purchased my GTC at full price.

From what I have read this is 100% legal.

Now were did I put those mother shipsBig smile
Frying Doom
#926 - 2013-10-17 21:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
DNSBLACK wrote:
Guys keep it up. iam glad CCP has delayed I just sold DNSBlack thru my raffle site and banked $2475.00.

1. Step One I went and purchased 2 / 60 day GTC

2. Thru this web site and forum post I had interested people inquire about my raffle. (One of the guys was a collector of eve famous people and he wanted my character bad.)

3. Player X purchased a 1 /60 day GTC off of DNS Corp for $2500.00 dollars. I used Pay Pal proxy service for all money exchange. Cost of GTC was 30.00 dollars. For buying my GTC I gave him $2470 DNS Credits

4. Player Y purchased 1 / 60 day GTC off of DNS Corp for $32.00 dollars. I used Pay Pal proxy service for all money exchange Cost of GTC was $30.00 dollars. For buying my GTC I gave her $2 DNS CREDITS

5. I then open the raffle purchasing window and there were 2472 available. They could purchase as many tickets as they like using their DNS credits.

6. The raffle game was sold out in a blink.

7. I then invited them to watch my twitch TV channel and had them join me on eve voice. It was so exciting

9. Each person on the raffle watched me put ther tickets into a official state lottery tumbler.

10. I Then invited my friend over who was a notary to witness the drawing.

11. I then pick the winning ticket live on Skype TV and player X won.

12. Sorry I had to go old school with my lottery and some of you didn't get the chance to participate.

14. I will be transferring the character IE DNSBlack to his new owner over the next 3 days. So if you see him posting in any of these threads it is not me.

15. I would like to thank CCP for making me a trusted partner over the last 7 years. I hope the 60 dollars of game time codes helps you build your business.

16. I would like to thank the owner of EVE.GAMES.NET who is also a trusted ccp site for this

"Thanks for your reply, while I do understand and respect your opinion... I can't set my sites policies based on your interpretation of the EULA. I set policy from CCP's interpretation of the EULA.
I have yet to see an argument that convinces me that what I and other sites are doing is RMT, and so far....neither has CCP

As I have stated previously, if CCP changes the language or asks me to stop the program. I will comply immediately.

I also wanted to say, to those that have stated they are so enraged by this that they are quitting the game....STOP, there's no need to do anything drastic. Give CCP time to work out a resolution to this question, whatever that might be. I have been playing this game for years and love it and I can tell from your passion regarding this topic that you love it too."

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#927 - 2013-10-17 21:37:49 UTC
interesting. thanks for the update DNSBlack. i wonder how much i could pimp myself out for. Twisted
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#928 - 2013-10-17 21:40:19 UTC
So now I guess all that remains is to figure out how those who aren't officially trusted and endorsed by CCP like Somer and DNSBlack can get in on this.

Oh well. It was fun while it lasted I suppose.
EVE-GAMES
EVE-GAMES.NET
#929 - 2013-10-17 21:45:33 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol


So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.

https://eve-games.net

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#930 - 2013-10-17 21:47:38 UTC
EVE-GAMES wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol


So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.

if you can't beat them, join them Twisted
DarkDecay
Real money traders
#931 - 2013-10-17 21:48:52 UTC
EVE-GAMES wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol


So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.


It was an EVE style **** you CCP?
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#932 - 2013-10-17 22:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
CEO has been transferred, Roles dropped, Left corp, Posted in Character bazzar, Waiting on buyer to confirm, As for DNS raffle game and payments guess what I do not want to break the DNS NDA.

I will be beginning my second DNS Corp character raffle game starting FRI OCT 17, 2013 in HONOR of EVE VEGAS.

LOOK FOR DETAILS IN THIS SECTION OF THE FORUMS: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=2938

This has been approved by CCP FALCON as the proper place for these game raffles to take place.

irishnox - will be over see all game raffles at this time
Shai 'Hulud
#933 - 2013-10-17 22:16:20 UTC
EVE-GAMES wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol


So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.

Our claim was that it is a rules violation. But it seems CCP is not applying the rules to this type of "raffle." And further, that SOMER had gained in-game favor due to the success of their RMT scheme.

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#934 - 2013-10-17 22:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
EVE-GAMES wrote:

So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.


Again you seem a bit confused about the matter in question.
We're not dealing with "player perception" or "grey areas" here. What we're dealing with is a lack of a clear CCP policy about the RMT you and Somer Blink have been doing.
In case they come up with a verdict that deems it to be a violation of the current EULA, you, Somer Blink and any CCP employee that helped you set up shop or gain influence within the community should still be punished in the same way any other power-abusing CCP employee or RMT'er (that was not giving them GTC sales) was before. That is of course, if CCP were down to keep their integrity.
The hypocrites in this situation are not the players that want to have a clear set of rules that *everyone* can abide by without favoritism in this game, but those that pretend to be a community service when in reality their a scam act and want to have full GTC isk RMT market monopoly, and those who support and advertise them as a charity.
Frying Doom
#935 - 2013-10-17 22:32:32 UTC
EVE-GAMES wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Well it is nice to know we can convert our characters back to cash instead of useless isk, especially now as isk will have no value.

Thanks DNS BLACK, well done, you will be missed but for 2.5k I really understand that Lol


So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.

I was ranting against it because it appeared to me to be RMT but as you have said CCP has told you that this is legit and above board. Subsequently if it is not RMT and not limited to a select few then it is fine. Personally I think it will be the end of EvE as you can now also buy a GTC and Billions in Black isk that you can convert via a "raffle" into real isk but what do I know. If it is ok by CCP and not limited to who can do it, it is good to go.

So if we can "raffle" our characters of for GTC sales and RL cash, I am all for it.

Oh as to the CCP/CSM survey, I don't think we will be needing that now as I doubt anyone will care.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

DarkDecay
Real money traders
#936 - 2013-10-17 22:36:24 UTC
Have to say this has been quality decision making by CCP in allowing a cash to made up currency to character exchange.

CCP, grow a pair and ban this (and the rmt somer, eve-games and all the rest of them that do it).
Frying Doom
#937 - 2013-10-17 22:59:27 UTC
DarkDecay wrote:
Have to say this has been quality decision making by CCP in allowing a cash to made up currency to character exchange.

CCP, grow a pair and ban this (and the rmt somer, eve-games and all the rest of them that do it).

Whats done is done. How unfair would it be if they made it illegal just because others have gotten into it, rather than just the chosen few.

They have let this go on for ages and they just need to suck it up and take it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

EVE-GAMES
EVE-GAMES.NET
#938 - 2013-10-17 23:02:20 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

I was ranting against it because it appeared to me to be RMT but as you have said CCP has told you that this is legit and above board. Subsequently if it is not RMT and not limited to a select few then it is fine. Personally I think it will be the end of EvE as you can now also buy a GTC and Billions in Black isk that you can convert via a "raffle" into real isk but what do I know. If it is ok by CCP and not limited to who can do it, it is good to go.

So if we can "raffle" our characters of for GTC sales and RL cash, I am all for it.

Oh as to the CCP/CSM survey, I don't think we will be needing that now as I doubt anyone will care.


Please don't put words in my mouth, I never stated CCP has told me this is legit and above board.

What I said was, in essence, if CCP has not ordered a takedown request or reprimanded Blink for the practice (and even assisted them in some cases) than it seems logical to assume they have no issue with it.

https://eve-games.net

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#939 - 2013-10-17 23:09:57 UTC
EVE-GAMES wrote:


What I said was, in essence, I've been getting away with doing this for years, so surely if it was against the EULA CCP would have banned me by now.


FYP.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Shai 'Hulud
#940 - 2013-10-17 23:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shai 'Hulud
I have thrown my hat in the ring Bear

(see In-Game Events and Gatherings forum)

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free