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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Kate stark
#561 - 2013-10-13 08:07:22 UTC
still no real worth while answers, guess i'll check back tomorrow.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Rammix
TheMurk
#562 - 2013-10-13 09:15:42 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Shai 'Hulud wrote:
You have some reading to do.

No, you have.

This
CCP Guard wrote:

Note that we haven't said that the ISW will never be given out again in any sort of giveaway. Just that we're pausing rewards of this nature until we are sure they make sense or have a framework ensuring they make sense :)


and more importantly this
CCP Guard wrote:
In this dev blog prior to Fanfest 2012, we announced that the ISW was not exclusive and would evntually be made available to everyone eventually:

"This leads on to another question, does this mean we will be seeing ship skins for sale in the NeX store or by some other method? That is currently not the plan and is not in development so the short answer is no. The Ishukone Scorpion was already created as the first prototype and Game Design plan to release it to everyone at some stage."


edit:
p.s. quotations from this topic


The five unique ships given to SOMER to use as prizes for the EVE Vegas lottery were not IWSs; it was specifically stated that those five ships were created for that event (after the Gold Magnate issue came up), and they would never be given out again (as Shai 'Hulud quoted). If you had bothered to read the quote or the link, you would know that, and that these were the ships Shai 'Hulud was referring to in his post, and you would not look quite so foolish right now.

I won't look foolish because we discuss IWS. And we discuss not eve vegas, we discuss those gifts which were given for contribution to community. Don't speculate mixing different topics.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Rammix
TheMurk
#563 - 2013-10-13 09:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
2 years ago I made a post asking for CCP to quit the hypocrisy, throw the mask and make RMT "canon".

To legalize RMT in any form except which is being done by the developer - AWFUL idea.
Any form of legal RMT will provoke much more botting, macrosing etc activity. People should keep their RL business out of game worlds. If there are some games that allow RMT for players - those games are sh*t, I'm absolutely sure. When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world.


It's lovely to see how there are always some people with those pocket, black and white truths.

Let's see how easy is to prove you wrong:

1) EvE on paper is the "no RMT" game with some of the shadiest past about tolerance towards botters and has been plagued by botting and macroing since ever.

2) EvE is completely into RMT. PLEX is now a staple of EvE and also a big pillar in its economy. Does this make EvE "sh*t" as you say? Also, how unpopular it was, when CCP introduced purely 3rd party made video cards for PLEX (= RMT)? It was so unpopular that they sold out in a Blink Twisted

3) Games made to deal with RMT as a feature, HAVE to strongly deal and circumscribe botters, macroes and generally cheaters otherwise they screw up the very economic model they work upon.


Rammix wrote:

When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world


if you remove the blah blah and the high horse, you find out that EvE tried to introduce "golden ammo". Not a Korean grinder but your truly, noble EvE. GREED IS GOOD, wasn't it?

As I said, hypocrital players got their hypocrical game.

Plex is being sold officially by the game developer. If there is an only seller (developer) which is not an ingame political force - that's ok.
Plex don't produce isk, it's just a trade tool. Players can't (legally) normally get RL money for plex.
Selling videocards for plex was wrong, but it's not a continous practice, and I hope such things won't happen again, at least not periodically.
You're misenterpreting things and speculate with formulations. I assume you're engaged in RMT or really want to be.

If you're buying ships for plex you got from the game developer (and those ships are expendables, so it's not a "classic" donation system) - it's one thing. But if you're ratting / trading / or maybe even botting and selling that ISK to get RL money - it's totally another thing. If players come into game for RL money - not just for fun and because they love the game - they break the gameplay for all other players who are in there _to play_.

Extreme cases like somer etc must be dealt with (ceazed) by ccp, to prevent mixing real-life business with ingame business.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#564 - 2013-10-13 10:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Rammix wrote:

Plex is being sold officially by the game developer. If there is an only seller (developer) which is not an ingame political force - that's ok.


Not entirely true and perfectly cogent with the "set head under sand and keep it tight" approach.
We have had situations where some rogue CCP employees helped this or that coalition.

Also, by official admission, they manipulate the PLEX market to keep it within their defined parameters. Considering PLEX is a major market, asset and commodity in game, controlling it IS a political act.


Rammix wrote:

Plex don't produce isk, it's just a trade tool.


Neither the spawned ships for Somer produce ISK, yet some thousands posts seem to say it's not OK either.


Rammix wrote:

Selling videocards for plex was wrong, but it's not a continous practice, and I hope such things won't happen again, at least not periodically.


I loved it and hope it'll expand A LOT.
Those of us who don't suck at EvE can finally make a game currency useful for their life.
I prefer having a new computer bought "out of nowhere" (ISK) than having 1 trillion in wallet I don't know what to do with.


Rammix wrote:

You're misenterpreting things and speculate with formulations. I assume you're engaged in RMT or really want to be.


"Engaged in RMT"? Your accusations make me laugh. You ASSume against someone who slowly became trusted 3rd party and auditor, years in the field... Try with somebody else.

What I'd like is to have official ways to express my ability with the markets so that I can tangibly impact on my RL thanks to my results. If it's a video card, fine. If it's a 1:5 scale Rifter model even better!


Rammix wrote:

Extreme cases like somer etc must be dealt with (ceazed) by ccp, to prevent mixing real-life business with ingame business.


Yet you and the other bunch of week end coaches never said "DUH!" for years and years, while Somer became the huge power that is today.

You woke up way too late to be credible and teach lessons.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kalindra Chan
#565 - 2013-10-13 10:21:42 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
2 years ago I made a post asking for CCP to quit the hypocrisy, throw the mask and make RMT "canon".

To legalize RMT in any form except which is being done by the developer - AWFUL idea.
Any form of legal RMT will provoke much more botting, macrosing etc activity. People should keep their RL business out of game worlds. If there are some games that allow RMT for players - those games are sh*t, I'm absolutely sure. When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world.


It's lovely to see how there are always some people with those pocket, black and white truths.

Let's see how easy is to prove you wrong:

1) EvE on paper is the "no RMT" game with some of the shadiest past about tolerance towards botters and has been plagued by botting and macroing since ever.

2) EvE is completely into RMT. PLEX is now a staple of EvE and also a big pillar in its economy. Does this make EvE "sh*t" as you say? Also, how unpopular it was, when CCP introduced purely 3rd party made video cards for PLEX (= RMT)? It was so unpopular that they sold out in a Blink Twisted

3) Games made to deal with RMT as a feature, HAVE to strongly deal and circumscribe botters, macroes and generally cheaters otherwise they screw up the very economic model they work upon.


Rammix wrote:

When people mix their RL income with online sandbox-style game - you can't keep healthy virtual world


if you remove the blah blah and the high horse, you find out that EvE tried to introduce "golden ammo". Not a Korean grinder but your truly, noble EvE. GREED IS GOOD, wasn't it?

As I said, hypocrital players got their hypocrical game.

Plex is being sold officially by the game developer. If there is an only seller (developer) which is not an ingame political force - that's ok.
Plex don't produce isk, it's just a trade tool. Players can't (legally) normally get RL money for plex.
Selling videocards for plex was wrong, but it's not a continous practice, and I hope such things won't happen again, at least not periodically.
You're misenterpreting things and speculate with formulations. I assume you're engaged in RMT or really want to be.

If you're buying ships for plex you got from the game developer (and those ships are expendables, so it's not a "classic" donation system) - it's one thing. But if you're ratting / trading / or maybe even botting and selling that ISK to get RL money - it's totally another thing. If players come into game for RL money - not just for fun and because they love the game - they break the gameplay for all other players who are in there _to play_.

Extreme cases like somer etc must be dealt with (ceazed) by ccp, to prevent mixing real-life business with ingame business.


my words exactly!

I came here to play eve online, because it was a sandbox i choose to play in because i like the idea the dev's had, the story, the gameplay, etc.

There is enough "wrong" and "bad" going on in our real life world which is so complex that it is very difficult to deal with, difficult to do anything against it. I dont wont to go into the real life world problematic for it would be far to much to cover here.
Just one thing, the minority of the world population is living a good life standard on the cost of the vast rest.

It makes me even sick that i am sitting here at my computer playing things like eve and on the other hand people are dying because they dont even have fresh water to drink and something to eat! And yet i still do npthing about it which is wrong!

So, since i choose to play eve because of the sandbox thought, the gameplay etc AND because there wasnt such sh..t going on we couldnt do anything against it! Don't get me wrong, it is still bad to shoot other players in-game, even to scam in-game... but it is part of the game and everyone playing it is accepting the rules of that sandbox. If someone is getting to angry because of such in-game things, then he/she just has to quit the game.

In our real world it isn't that easy to handle the bad things. We cannot go around and shoot the people doing bad things for example and so on...

What we want to hear is an official statement of CCP to that extreme penetration of that sandbox we loved due to 3rd party tools/websites. So i would then know CCP's future plans and can decide to live with it or stop, because i dont want to read any more comments on this topic and i bet nobody else too (except for those of course, who have a forum read and write fetish)...

I am sure i forgot somethings and appologize for my bad writing. It is so hard for me writing my thoug

I'm a trap!
Josef Djugashvilis
#566 - 2013-10-13 10:32:55 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Miss Ladybird wrote:
5) CCP just wont give up the 'SOMERblink is a community hub, does good for the eve community and is altruistic' campaign. Most players hate SOMERblink.

To be honest, I doubt most players particularly care about SOMER one way or another, and stating "Most players hate SOMERblink" undermines what is otherwise a good post. This isn't about SOMER directly, this is about CCP arbitrarily picking the winners and losers in what is supposed to be a player-driven sandbox.


I for one, had not, to the best of my knowledge, ever heard of SBlink.

Perhaps that is because I do not gamble.

This is not a signature.
Kalindra Chan
#567 - 2013-10-13 10:34:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Rammix wrote:

Extreme cases like somer etc must be dealt with (ceazed) by ccp, to prevent mixing real-life business with ingame business.


Yet you and the other bunch of whitened tombs never said "DUH!" for years and years, while Somer became the huge power that is today.

You woke up way too late to be credible and teach lessons.


I for my part had a break from end of 2009 to July 2013 and i first heared of Somer blink about one week ago and only because of that "ccp navigator / somer blink free special ships secretly" incident.

If I would have known of somer blinks lottery business outside of the game accepted and even praised by ccp before i startet playing eve online again 3 months ago, i would have NEVER startet again!

I bet a lot of players dont even know about somer blinks out of game business yet!

I'm a trap!
Rammix
TheMurk
#568 - 2013-10-13 10:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

We have had situations where some rogue CCP employees helped this or that coalition.

Extreme cases, not common practice. And they must be prevented or ceased.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Also, by official admission, they manipulate the PLEX market to keep it within their defined parameters. Considering PLEX is a major market, asset and commodity in game, controlling it IS a political act.

They rebalance ships, change sov mechanics etc - political acts also. But what is important - they don't do it for their own political organization ingame. They rather do changes to the gaming experience as a whole.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Neither the spawned ships for Somer produce ISK, yet some thousands posts seem to say it's not OK either.

Sure. The problem is not ships, but those whom the ships were given to, and for what.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I loved it and hope it'll expand A LOT.
Those of us who don't suck at EvE can finally make a game currency useful for their life.
I prefer having a new computer bought "out of nowhere" (ISK) than having 1 trillion in wallet I don't know what to do with.

It can be acceptable as a short term event, with limited amount of videocards, with limit to how many of those can get in one player's hands.. with limits.. with limits.. :) Those limits are hard to control to prevent any significant impact on the game. Just to illustrate: if they started selling videocards for plex like in a shop, it would become very dangerous for the game.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

"Engaged in RMT"? Your accusations make me laugh. You ASSume against someone who slowly became trusted 3rd party and auditor, years in the field... Try with somebody else.

What I'd like is to have official ways to express my ability with the markets so that I can tangibly impact on my RL thanks to my results. If it's a video card, fine. If it's a 1:5 scale Rifter model even better!
...
Yet you and the other bunch of whitened tombs never said "DUH!" for years and years, while Somer became the huge power that is today.

You woke up way too late to be credible and teach lessons.

If you want to start steadily and continuously turning your ingame achievements into RL money - it means you want to trade ingame wealth for real life money (real money trade).
If you just want to get a rifter model for isk and have no intention of getting them regularly to sell IRL - sorry, I misunderstood your attitude and intentions.
...
I didn't know almost anything about somer, I saw an ingame advertisement once or twice and ignored it, because I don't like lotteries (people getting other people's money just because they were "luckily" chosen by a third party, which they decided to trust).

edit
Reached the limit for quotations, couldn't quote everything separately. Sad

edit2
BTW I consider all ingame lotteries a scam. But scam is a part of gameplay, so I just didn't pay much attention to it.

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Josef Djugashvilis
#569 - 2013-10-13 11:30:58 UTC
Anyone know the history of S Blink?

Are they an outside gambling site which alighted upon Eve, or were they originally a player corp who came up with an isk making (a fool and his isk are easily parted) idea?

This is not a signature.
Kate stark
#570 - 2013-10-13 11:33:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rammix wrote:

Plex don't produce isk, it's just a trade tool.


Neither the spawned ships for Somer produce ISK, yet some thousands posts seem to say it's not OK either.


except plex is given to any player in exchange for a sum of real life currency.
plex isn't given out "just because" and only limited to people ccp want to give it to, unlike the scorpions.

stop comparing apples to oranges.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Kalindra Chan
#571 - 2013-10-13 11:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalindra Chan
removed, because i am getting tired by all of this....

"all the dude ever wanted, was his eve back!" (Kudos Jeff Bridges!)

I'm a trap!
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#572 - 2013-10-13 12:07:11 UTC
Kalindra Chan wrote:
Soooo, since here in Germany and i bet many other counties too, participating in lottery is illegal if you are under 18 years of age!
By letting those kids participate in lottery, you know you are breaking even more laws.
I wish people would stop bringing up RL gambling law into this. It simply doesn't apply. Legally speaking, you as a player neither own the ISK you pay to Somer nor do you own the in-game prizes you might win. And Somer doesn't own any of those either. Legally everything is owned by CCP. This isn't any more RL gambling than any board game involving dice and fake money, like say Monopoly.

So bringing this up over and over again is just distracting from the actual issues.
Frying Doom
#573 - 2013-10-13 12:11:53 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Kalindra Chan wrote:
Soooo, since here in Germany and i bet many other counties too, participating in lottery is illegal if you are under 18 years of age!
By letting those kids participate in lottery, you know you are breaking even more laws.
I wish people would stop bringing up RL gambling law into this. It simply doesn't apply. Legally speaking, you as a player neither own the ISK you pay to Somer nor do you own the in-game prizes you might win. And Somer doesn't own any of those either. Legally everything is owned by CCP. This isn't any more RL gambling than any board game involving dice and fake money, like say Monopoly.

So bringing this up over and over again is just distracting from the actual issues.

So nothing at all like exchanging money for chips in a casino and gambling with those chips then?

You can buy plex with cash and use that fake money to gamble.

Personally I have nothing against gambling but what is involved is not fake money. The only difference is that as the gambler you can not convert it back into cash.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#574 - 2013-10-13 12:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Farrere
Rob Crowley wrote:
Kalindra Chan wrote:
Soooo, since here in Germany and i bet many other counties too, participating in lottery is illegal if you are under 18 years of age!
By letting those kids participate in lottery, you know you are breaking even more laws.
I wish people would stop bringing up RL gambling law into this. It simply doesn't apply. Legally speaking, you as a player neither own the ISK you pay to Somer nor do you own the in-game prizes you might win. And Somer doesn't own any of those either. Legally everything is owned by CCP. This isn't any more RL gambling than any board game involving dice and fake money, like say Monopoly.

So bringing this up over and over again is just distracting from the actual issues.


What about the real-life trips to Iceland being given as prizes on a site that you can top up your balance with real-life money?

(and that was actually CCP's doing, not SOMER Blink's. Just goes to show how screwed up the whole thing is)
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#575 - 2013-10-13 12:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruskarn Andedare
Jimmy Farrere wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
Kalindra Chan wrote:
Soooo, since here in Germany and i bet many other counties too, participating in lottery is illegal if you are under 18 years of age!
By letting those kids participate in lottery, you know you are breaking even more laws.
I wish people would stop bringing up RL gambling law into this. It simply doesn't apply. Legally speaking, you as a player neither own the ISK you pay to Somer nor do you own the in-game prizes you might win. And Somer doesn't own any of those either. Legally everything is owned by CCP. This isn't any more RL gambling than any board game involving dice and fake money, like say Monopoly.

So bringing this up over and over again is just distracting from the actual issues.


What about the real-life trips to Iceland being given as prizes on a site that you can top up your balance with real-life money?

(and that was actually CCP's doing, not SOMER Blink's. Just goes to show how screwed up the whole thing is)


RL cash for RL prizes. That's pretty much the definition of RL gambling.

Or can Somer confirm that none of the RL items were bid on by people with bonus points, oh and that all of the bidders were over their national minimum gambling age requirement?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#576 - 2013-10-13 13:05:37 UTC
I think the saddest part is that this episode means that the depth of thought that CCP put into their community development was: "what do lots of players use?" and "let's give them stuffz". That effort demonstrates the capacity of a child, not a team of supposed professionals.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#577 - 2013-10-13 14:54:44 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
Legally everything is owned by CCP. This isn't any more RL gambling than any board game involving dice and fake money, like say Monopoly.
So nothing at all like exchanging money for chips in a casino and gambling with those chips then?
Correct, legally it's nothing at all like that. The difference is that you actually own the chips in a casino while you do not own ISK, PLEX or any other in-game assets. That incidentally is the reason why you can't turn any of it back into cash.

Jimmy Farrere wrote:
What about the real-life trips to Iceland being given as prizes on a site that you can top up your balance with real-life money?
I'm not a lawyer, but if the prizes are RL stuff shouldn't be important. What would make it RL gambling is if you pay for your bets with RL stuff. If that is somehow indirectly the case with Somer as you claim I don't know, seems like a rather complicated legal construct to untangle, and frankly I don't really care cause this is a totally independant issue from CCP giving them stuff which is the topic of this thread.

If you want to close down Somer for violation of RL gambling laws then feel free to pursue this in a separate thread. This thread is about CCP giving stuff to a CCP-picked for-profit in-game organization and the arguments made wouldn't be any different no matter if Somer is conducting RL gambling or not and for that matter the arguments wouldn't be different if it wasn't Somer but another for-profit in-game organization which had been picked.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#578 - 2013-10-13 15:02:52 UTC
Rammix wrote:

BTW I consider all ingame lotteries a scam. But scam is a part of gameplay, so I just didn't pay much attention to it.

All lotteries are scams, including ones IRL. They take in X amount of money from customers, and then give a fraction of it back. The difference being with IRL lotteries is that they're regulated. I've heard that new Blink accounts tend to win isk more easily when they first start in order to get them hooked. Is this true? Maybe, maybe not. In an IRL lottery that would be strictly illegal.

Likewise, there isn't a single person in all of Eve that can provide proof that Somer and his crew don't randomly insert their own alts into the lotto process if they choose to and make sure they come out with the winnings.

Nevertheless despite the total lack of oversight we have CCP employees coming out and officially vouching for their trustworthiness, telling everyone that "Somer has for years delivered on every blink, bonk, and whatever other stupid terms they use" all the while reading like bought and paid for advertisement.
Shai 'Hulud
#579 - 2013-10-13 15:19:20 UTC
Rammix wrote:
I won't look foolish because we discuss IWS. And we discuss not eve vegas, we discuss those gifts which were given for contribution to community. Don't speculate mixing different topics.

Your reading comprehensions skills are ...

Title of the thread: "Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors"

Tell me where the words "Ishukone Works Scorpion" are in that title?

This topic is not just about the IWS's given to SOMER ... it's about all the recent, random gifts (including the IWS given to BIG). And when I discussed the other prizes I talked about it as "total amount gifted to SOMER."

This will be the last time I reply to you, as I fully expect you will reply with some completely irrelevant quote proving you RIGHT Roll

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Rammix
TheMurk
#580 - 2013-10-13 15:25:11 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
Rammix wrote:

BTW I consider all ingame lotteries a scam. But scam is a part of gameplay, so I just didn't pay much attention to it.

All lotteries are scams, including ones IRL.

RL lotteries are scam, banks are scam (usury), financial pyramids are scam, corporations like microsoft are scam, etc etc etc.
It's a matter of another topic.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread