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[Rubicon] Interceptors

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Naomi Anthar
#81 - 2013-10-02 19:02:51 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
I find fight between crusader and taranis as really good example of interesting balance. If both pilots are capable, crusader has better chances of winning, despite the fact crusader has 2 mids.


Just.. How would you lose a fight against a Crusader in a taranis?

Inside scram range the taranis is twice as fast, has better tracking and far more dps..


I may try to answer how :
I will quote that elite pvper :
" In lowsec - maybe. For nullsec, "

I'm done. I go sleep. Too exhausted for today. Glad there good amount of people who actually can pvp like Garviel and few others that can see how **** Crusader is. And will hopefully fight in this topic for justice for this really gimped ship.

Because if not now - then when ? Ship cannot be garbage forever ... cmon.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#82 - 2013-10-02 19:03:43 UTC
WOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Kadesh Priestess
Goryn Clade
#83 - 2013-10-02 19:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadesh Priestess
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
I find fight between crusader and taranis as really good example of interesting balance. If both pilots are capable, crusader has better chances of winning, despite the fact crusader has 2 mids.


Just.. How would you lose a fight against a Crusader in a taranis?

Inside scram range the taranis is twice as fast, has better tracking and far more dps..
This is EFT. In reality you can do multiple tricks to get early advantage. Primary 'skill' for good crusader - stabilizing right at 8-10 km (slightly less will do, just not outside of heated scram range). It is much easier to do than stabilizing within 3 km (that's what taranis should try to do). If it's dualmagstab ion ranis with web, it takes around 20 seconds to close from 10 to 3km, with 190 dps from your heated scorches it's full ehp of ranis. Vs classical dual-prop taranis with neutrons it's much harder (as close-up speed is higher), but still doable. I prefer dual-OD fitting without rep when dealing with these, although with new AAR single OD fit is a good all-rounder.

Naomi Anthar wrote:
Because if not now - then when ? Ship cannot be garbage forever ... cmon.
Ur skill is garbage. Fix it, not crusader.

ps And claw Roll
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#84 - 2013-10-02 19:08:00 UTC
I'm still asking the question CCP Fozzie, and you are still dodging it: what the hell are nul-sec miners meant to do now?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Bubanni
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#85 - 2013-10-02 19:10:17 UTC
I also have one more feedback... I don't think combat interceptors should have the bubble immunity :) but that's just my opinion, the fleet tacklers are fine with it.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#86 - 2013-10-02 19:16:05 UTC
The crusader and claw should have a third mid tbh. And maybe drop a turret for a utility high? Adjust the dmg bonus to reflect this change.

Im also a little sad that the malediction looses the utility high :(
Maybe the low compensates for it, will have to try it on sisi.

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-10-02 19:17:50 UTC
How's about simply switching the Crusader and Claw from combat interceptors to fleet and the others to combat with some bonus fiddling.

It's got to be better, surely.


Also, a respectful question to Fozzie, Rise and Prom. What sort of fight do you envisage the Crusader and Claw having? Have you spent much time in them? Thoughts?

Thanks

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.
Golar Crexis
Donald Trump Real Estate
#88 - 2013-10-02 19:26:14 UTC
Well looks like its time to start buying up crows and sell my stiletto's.


Also It may have been mentioned before but I didn't spot it so Have you thought of increasing the lock range?
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-10-02 20:05:57 UTC

Claw now has 22.5km base with 31km max skill+raw fleet bonus targeting, while t2 point's range is 24km it is not too bad.

I guess Fozzie is suggesting people to use both Skirmish-Information link to fix the targeting range problem with bonus,
Teledhil Audeles
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-10-02 20:09:02 UTC
What about other ships used as interceptors like the Dramiel? Any plans on giving those ships the same bubble inmunity?
IrJosy
Club 1621
#91 - 2013-10-02 20:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: IrJosy
Is there a reason gallente, the drone race are getting missiles as an optional weapon system instead of drones?

Nullified interceptors, nullified cruisers, covert cloaks on everything, depots, nerfing RSB's, nerfing HIC's (and then buffing them back), new cloaky SOE ships, nerfing remote sensor boosters, and more. We get it. CCP has a hard on for cloaky black ops stuff.

Do interceptors really need bubble immunity though? At 5k m/s they can fly through a 20km bubble in 4 seconds or more typically half of a 20km bubble in 2 seconds to get to a gate. With bonuses and snake implants that just gets reduced. Do interceptors really need the bubble immunity to catch ships they are chasing after the warp speed acceleration changes?

All of these changes just make it harder and harder and harder to kill gankers. Gankers already show up to the fight at a huge advantage typically with speed and damage type if they think ahead and use ammo that aims for the resist hole of their prey.

How about some new ways to stop null sec gankers for once? A deployable web bubble or a deployable anti-cloak bubble would go miles for gate camps. As it stands now just about anything can get through any gate camp that isn't cowwarrior. I avoided 15 TEST in a dinky throw away vagabond with an improved cloak. At a certain point you need to give some equal tools to the counter-black ops people.
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#92 - 2013-10-02 20:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
So, About that Lock Range, really needs to be Higher, especially for the Fleet Interceptors.

The Bubble Immunity is out of place. That should really be on the Interdictor class instead. Give the Nullsec only bonus to a Class of ships specifically designed to work in Nullsec.

Instead, give it a focussed bonus based around it's role as a fast tackler that's useful no matter where you are. It's meant to lock targets fast and stop them getting away. How about a Web Strength Bonus to stop a Target just burning back to the gate? Or a 100% Bonus to Warp Scramble Strength (So Warp Disruptors would give 2 Points of Warp Disruption while Warp Scramblers would give 4 Points, but only when fitted to an Interceptor)
NinjaStyle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-10-02 20:24:46 UTC
lower ehp is okay but since Dominix Garde II's can no track fully orbiting INTERCEPTORS maybe you should give Intys some more Speed and lock range so they can actually AVOID getting instantly killed??????????? you actually made some of these slower? WHY?! they die SO EASILY because its allmost IMPOSSIBLE to avoid dmg now!

overall 'ok' had hoped for better but I guess this is slightly better than they where in a few ways...?
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2013-10-02 20:34:40 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
I'm still asking the question CCP Fozzie, and you are still dodging it: what the hell are nul-sec miners meant to do now?


0.0 miners should always have a combat squadron either roaming in nearby systems to come and help or you should have a couple of combat ships killing rats in belts in system so that they can come to your aid if necessary. Besides, It's just the intys that are immune to bubbles. The rest of the fleet that they are scouting for still have to travel through the bubble.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-10-02 20:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
Seriously, split weapons? Again? You specifically said you were moving away from that unless you can get the full benefit of either ala Scythe fleet issue.

I mean come on ffs. If you ruin the Enyo I will be forced to biomass (try to hold your cheers). There's nothing wrong with having two hybrid boats in the same class, perhaps make the Ares a drone boat?

Gallente use hybrids and drones, not god damn missiles. People who train Gallente usually don't train missiles, if you follow through with ruining the Roden ships with some missile BS, you'll have to train 3 weapon systems to fly Gallente and they'll be as annoying as Minmatar.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#96 - 2013-10-02 21:00:14 UTC
Akturous wrote:
Seriously, split weapons? Again? You specifically said you were moving away from that unless you can get the full benefit of either ala Scythe fleet issue.

I mean come on ffs. If you ruin the Enyo I will be forced to biomass (try to hold your cheers). There's nothing wrong with having two hybrid boats in the same class, perhaps make the Ares a drone boat?

Gallente use hybrids and drones, not god damn missiles. People who train Gallente usually don't train missiles, if you follow through with ruining the Roden ships with some missile BS, you'll have to train 3 weapon systems to fly Gallente and they'll be as annoying as Minmatar.


if you look very closely you'll notice the ares has a double bonus to both guns and missiles

it's gonna take you a lot of concentration to spot it though, i can tell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#97 - 2013-10-02 21:04:03 UTC
Akturous wrote:
Seriously, split weapons? Again? You specifically said you were moving away from that unless you can get the full benefit of either ala Scythe fleet issue.

I mean come on ffs. If you ruin the Enyo I will be forced to biomass (try to hold your cheers). There's nothing wrong with having two hybrid boats in the same class, perhaps make the Ares a drone boat?

Gallente use hybrids and drones, not god damn missiles. People who train Gallente usually don't train missiles, if you follow through with ruining the Roden ships with some missile BS, you'll have to train 3 weapon systems to fly Gallente and they'll be as annoying as Minmatar.


well Roden are meant to be exclusively missiles now!!! they are proposing to add hybrids alongside missiles (that they should have but they screwed up that part) a la scythe fleet issue but with blasters instead of projectiles.. but this is more versatile instead of specialisation which is the point of T2 and by extension manufacturers.

Enyo will become duvolle labs which is blasters as mentioned in OP.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#98 - 2013-10-02 21:18:46 UTC
Why does the Crusader still have 2 mid slots?

The changes are great, overall, but lasers can't track ANYTHING without a web.

Like when an Atron got under my AB Navy Slicer's guns...................Shocked
Amera Khan
Regiment Of Naga Association
OnlyFleets.
#99 - 2013-10-02 21:23:00 UTC
Lock range needs to be higher . It is the main problem with ceptors you need to devote too many slots to get lock range to an acceptable level.
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Reeloaded.
#100 - 2013-10-02 21:27:02 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
So, About that Lock Range, really needs to be Higher, especially for the Fleet Interceptors.

The Bubble Immunity is out of place. That should really be on the Interdictor class instead. Give the Nullsec only bonus to a Class of ships specifically designed to work in Nullsec.

Instead, give it a focussed bonus based around it's role as a fast tackler that's useful no matter where you are. It's meant to lock targets fast and stop them getting away. How about a Web Strength Bonus to stop a Target just burning back to the gate? Or a 100% Bonus to Warp Scramble Strength (So Warp Disruptors would give 2 Points of Warp Disruption while Warp Scramblers would give 4 Points, but only when fitted to an Interceptor)


This^^^

Also I am reposting this from another thread.

"In my opinion, the thing that intys need the most, is to be immune to the mwd canceling affects of a warp scram.

The warp bubble immunity is the stupidest thing that could be done. The last thing we need flying around is more uncatchable interdiction nullified ships.

If intys were immune to having their mwd turned off, they would need nothing else. That would be their niche and it would not just be a lame copy of another broken game mechanic."