EVE Information Portal

Freakin long thread ...

My PI is vertically integrated. There is no way to "smuggle" product onto a planet.

The fact that you, as a RvB pilot, like the new high sec POCO's doesn't disprove people saying this is a change in favour for big corporations and alliances

I myself think its likely RvB, who is in the perfect positon to claim a lot of high sec poco's.

1. RvB members are ready for PvP anytime
2. RvB members fly cheap stuff so the cost of "getting blown up" is negligible
3. RvB members are very present in high sec because the live in high sec.
4. In comparison to 0 sec and low sec PvPer's RvB pilots (mostly) dont have security status issues.

Meaning every indu corp has to be very careful when deccing RvB to claim a POCO. Otherwise they might loose a mining barge, a hauler or a shiny misson ship to a random RvB cruiser/frigatte party.

Its important to note, that the new player owned custom's office have no standing requirements towards the space ruling NPC faction. This is, besides the scaling war declaration costs, another disadvantage for small corps since high NPC faction standing can be better achieved with smaller corps. .....this has been mentioned by Talconia a few pages afore.



So yes, this is a change that favours big entities in a struggle for 5-10% profit margins on low-ressource high sec planets.

Sounds interesting. Why not make the POCOs upgradable in terms of fitting them w/ defenses?

That would allow smaller fish to fight off larger attempts at takeover, not to mention if the owner isn't online when an attack occurs.

Defense Drones, automated missles, shields/rechargers, mace...

I've been trying to think of a way to phrase my feelings on this, I finally settled on a simple term.

"Ore site changes 2.0"

Seriously CCP you already destroyed WH mining by letting gankers now insta jump without even a probes on dscan warning, and removing scanable gravs in low means the risk to try and venture out of high for that now is nowhere near equal to the rewards.

And now you want to run into the ground even further the one high sec income source that you already all but ruined with a 10% tax you're not planning to get rid of even AFTER we take over the POCO?

Seriously the "lore" explanation being pushed by CCP on this one is pure BS, just call a spade a spade and an isk sink an isk sink and be done with it. Same with just admitting the only people you give a damn about in EVE are your precious too big to fail power blocks and your pvp playerbase, industry pilots be damned. This is even more of a joke when you give us the time sink of another train to V skill on top.

Where is the incentive to take control of the POCO's and then be forced to protect them if we don't get the benefit of no taxes since THE CORP controls it, not npcs.

But the part I'll admit ticks me off the most? Everyone likes to claim eve is a sandbox but more and more that's being shown to be "sandbox if you train pvp skills otherwise gg!" If it's a universe of choices why is it as of late the choice seems to be an inability to do anything or grow out of high sec because the second you try there's a giant brick wall of major alliances saying "You want a piece of null that's funny!" And low is just gankfest and gatecamp central.

And now we're letting them into high if they wish, yeah there's a great idea....

There is no room for the lone wolves, the small corp, or those who just want a little spot to be left alone by a change like this because we've already seen how rife with abuse and exploitative behavior this system will be, more so on top of the already busted "500 mil if you want to fight" war dec mechanics which shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this till those get addressed.

For the record my vote would be for the suspect flag approach instead. And I've now put plans for a dedicated PI alt (which would have been another 3 month membership for you CCP!) on hold till I see how these changes go down.

That said I don't think the goons will do...much..not to the scale some think. But the fact they could (hulkageddons and ice indertictions anyone?) Shows again how this system is a glaringly BAD idea in it's current form. Heck goons are right in one regard, i'd be much more worried about neighbors then them. You don't need a mega alliance like them or RvB to pull a POCO monopoly and force out others with an NPC tax on top of player taxes. You just need whichever big corp controls the area.

tl:dr
#1 keeping the npc tax makes this change a pathetic joke right off the bat.
#2 further screwing over your indy players and nerfing hi sec income sources is not good for the health of your game
#3 you aren;t going to create pvp "gf!" with this, you're just further catering to those already on top, gankfests, and those who can't afford 500 mil are left in the cold.
#4 You're making it that much harder to get out of high in the first place by disrupting the income sources of those who use part of that income as a means to try.
#5 it feels like i'm being pushed back towards the mind numbing grind of mining or missions over a more stable income source, if that's the case we'll see how long i feel like keeping even this account.

CO's started life as a way to remove Isk from the game so that people couldn't build empires in the market place for nothing. That makes sense in that it keeps with other Isk sinks in the game such as clones, skill books etc. Now however you CCP have created a system that will line the pockets of whoever is powerful enough to control POCO's in hi sec whether they do anymore work than setting one up in the first place instead of providing that Isk sink for everyone equally.

You have distorted and destroyed what Hi sec was supposed to be in many peoples opinions. If EVE is a sandbox based on how people react to one another then base it on the reality of the systems people set up based on real interactions. Hi-sec in your advertisements to new players sounds like it should be what many would consider a developed nation. People have jobs, create jobs, own their own home, and live in relative peace and security. Obviously bad things can and do happen, but it is not the wild west or the streets of Mogadishu Somalia.

If the CO's shouldn't be owned by some massive NPC corp then transfer the ownership to the empire that controls the space they are located in. E.G. Caldari, Gallente, Sanshas, and yes even Goon, etc. Then base the tax rate on the players standings with the owning empire. Just like people have to do when bringing goods into a country in real life through a ship, or Airport.

To spice things up a bit for those who look at this change as something to increase PVP make it where they are flippable for faction warfare and in Null instead of corps or alliances grinding timers just have all the CO's flip when sovereignty is achieved through the current mechanics. It is a change of government not the bureaucrats and structures that actually keep it running.

This is silly. Everyone knows Goons are in it for the griefing. Goons only care about ISK because they need ISK to support their griefing.

There a BIG issues with this concept and no options for the player; bottom line its short sighted.

Why cant we have some of following to counter balance this:

• Option to pack up and move on - uproot your PI, your infrastructure and just move to a new planet.
• Have more than 1 installation on a planet - I don't want to have to manage relationships with up to 6 different POCO owners.
• Allow the installation of basic defences eg like POS defences. But severely limited to that CPU/PG around the POCO so they take more than a 3 man corp. to pop.
• Limit introduction of this to 0.5 and 0.6 to begin with.

Cheers
Ramm.

You missed...

5. RvB has alts with high NPC faction standings!

As was pointed out by the Goons, we'd use a separate small corp to hold the POCOs which has the standings to anchor them. Place the corp in the alliance and the war declaration mechanics do the rest. Even if the corp had to stay outside the alliance, then you've got the assistance part of the war mechanics to contend with.

But why would they? Keeping the POCO open and taxes at a reasonable level is the key to long-term profit. If you take a planet to lock it down, you're quickly looking at a net loss.

How much free ISK they made as you stopped doing PI, and they just invested 100mil per poco?

I know, logic doesn't work in hisec, but still, you guys are baffling.