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Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are not acceptable!!!

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#21 - 2013-09-27 17:48:53 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.


Correct. Now learn a new way to do things if you want to catch these ships.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#22 - 2013-09-27 17:49:08 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.


Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics.


This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations.

Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe.

I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.


Even more Wah


Adapt or biomass.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-09-27 17:58:43 UTC
Here I brought you some help and support.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2013-09-27 17:59:32 UTC
Xaen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Xaen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:

While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:

Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.

I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.

Reason 1:
  • IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you...

    • Reason 2:
  • Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!


    • Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties:
  • A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.

    • My initial reaction to this was "cool, that's totally in line with being "an interceptor"".

    And I'm open to hearing what ideas you have to improving either their plans or the existing situation, but you offered neither.


    Did you even read my post? I proposed a potential change to Interdiction Nullifiers that would balance it out.
    Additionally, what "existing" situation needs remedied? Interceptors move through nullsec very reliably. If you need to get around more safely, use a covops instead. It warps at the same speed of inties, it cloaks, and if you can fly inties it takes like 2 days to get into a covops!

    You're the one assuming something needed to be remedied! I asked for improvements, not remedies.

    The problem with your view on interceptors is that bubbles are the I-win-butan against interceptors. It completely nullifies their utility if they can't use any warping ability or cloak. It's like catching a fly in molasses. Which sounds like the flycatcher's role, but should a dictor be the trump card to all interceptors? I tentatively think not, but you've not convinced me that I'm wrong.


    A dictor isn't a trump card to inties. Catching an inty going through a gate is not as simple as putting a dictor bubble up on the gate. First off, most inties can outrun a dictor. Next, if the gate camp is scary, they can power back to gate often before anyone can even lock them! Frankly, the improvements inties needed were the "fast warp acceleration" so they can actually warp from gate to gate faster than a BS.

    Can inties get through every gate camp?
    In general, most nullsec camps now use bubblers to "snag targets". An interceptor has many options for dealing with this:
  • Power out of the bubble and warp away.
  • Power back to gate and exit to safety.
    • Neither one of these are fool proof, but they work in 90% of all nullsec gate camps. Some camps have options inhibited by long range scramblers and webbers, or alpha ships, but most dont!

    In contrast, the new norm will be to include fast locking ships that can insta-lock an inty before it warps. This won't be an improvement of game play, as these types of camps are generally viewed as obnoxious. Furthermore, the newb-friendly setup a drag bubble and camp it with an AB frigate gameplay is very much hurt, as interceptors, their primary targets, become immune to this basic trap.

    Overall, this change to interceptors is a bad thing!

    Seriously, why change it:
  • To travel more safely through nullsec in an inty --- This is a TERRIBLE reason for the change. Get a covops, or deal with the dangers of nullsec.

  • To catch PvEers in bubble-secured systems --- This has some merits, but I doubt it will really change anything. You still show up in local before you load grid, and pilots will still get into warp before you can locate and warp to them.

    • So what other purpose is there to this change? Hell, I'd rather leave inties alone and make covops nullified instead, just with a more brutal align time to compensate.


    Adunh Slavy
    #25 - 2013-09-27 18:04:38 UTC
    If it gets more people into null, then great. If it hurts lame gate camps, boo hoo. Cry more or something.

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
    marVLs
    #26 - 2013-09-27 18:05:28 UTC
    Everything to kill those lame gate camps and bubble camps is welcome Cool
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #27 - 2013-09-27 18:19:18 UTC

    I know there are very skittish, sit on your but and camp a bubble all day players. I am not one of those. I'm much more of a small gang and solo roamer, that likes to interdict people flying stupid in their corner of nullsec. I feel pretty strongly that interceptors don't need this buff, but it will be a nice boost to my taranis.
    JinSanJong
    Doomheim
    #28 - 2013-09-27 18:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: JinSanJong
    Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. Why should you be able to go afk and still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #29 - 2013-09-27 18:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
    JinSanJong wrote:
    Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. When should you be able to be ago abs still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship


    Avoiding bubbles is extremely easy! Don't warp gate to gate! Bounce off bookmarks, bounce off celestials, bounce off anomalies, etc. I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!

    And bubbles are one of the best mechanics CCP has ever introduced to the game. The ability to set engagement distances, the ability to surprise a target that doesn't expect to leave warp at your bubble's edge... This has extreme tactical value, and are by far one of the best mechanics in the game.

    p.s. Your "I hate bubbles mantra" (a.k.a. please make nullsec travel safer for me) is EXACTLY why this change is simply terrible!
    Sirinda
    Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
    #30 - 2013-09-27 18:31:43 UTC
    TEAR EXTRACTION STATUS: SUCCESSFUL
    Bischopt
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #31 - 2013-09-27 18:43:23 UTC
    If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you?
    Ilaister
    Binary Aesthetics
    #32 - 2013-09-27 18:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilaister
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!


    So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials?
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #33 - 2013-09-27 18:52:00 UTC
    Bischopt wrote:
    If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you?


    Generally speaking, because the traps I set usually involve people chasing me around and landing with me in a bubble. I usually don't sit 6 km's off a gate with smartbombs running hoping a noob will warp through the blast radius.

    I'm not worried about a lack of kills on my killboard, I'm worried about the direction of this change: Making it safer to travel through nullsec.

    Covert cloak ships and MWD-Cloak Ships had to contend with bubbles. Fairly balanced.
    Add in Nullified syb-systems, limited to t3's... Prefer not, but fairly limited to hulls. These can also be decloaked.
    Add in MJD-Cloak ships (which are immune to bubbles), but limited to BS's. These are more easily decloaked, and still limited.

    Now add interceptors to the list of "safe travel nullsec ships"... why? what good does this do? We don't need safer nullsec travel!
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #34 - 2013-09-27 18:52:14 UTC
    Doc Fury wrote:
    Grey Beard wrote:
    Solution :

    Do something other then camping gates.



    Not empty quoting.


    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #35 - 2013-09-27 19:00:42 UTC
    Ilaister wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!


    So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials?


    There are only a handful of systems with bubbles you can't avoid using celestials. Do they exist, sure. Do we need interceptors to be able to travel through these systems? No, we don't. We already have covops ships, nullified t3's, and MJD Battleships. Why do we need or want nullified interceptors?

    Frankly, those are the system that I purposely fly my interceptor INTO the bubbles so I can get tackle on a gate campers. If I'm out solo, and ill-prepared to deal with the very predictable campers, I simply avoid those systems!

    We don't need nullified interceptors! They really are just the next generation of interdiction nullified tier 3's, so I'm-to-lazy-to-have-bookmarks and I'm-to-dumb-to-avoid-hostiles don't have to think when traveling through nullsec.
    Toshiro Ozuwara
    Perkone
    #36 - 2013-09-27 19:08:02 UTC
    JinSanJong wrote:
    Why should you be able to go afk and still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3!

    It is called piloting. Bounce off a celestial.

    It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
    Caviar Liberta
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #37 - 2013-09-27 19:09:09 UTC
    Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #38 - 2013-09-27 19:16:48 UTC
    Caviar Liberta wrote:
    Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping.


    I agree. And I'll be sure to bring a sebo'd ares rather than a sabre when out roaming. That's not the point though.

    Who really benefits from this change?
    -- The inty that cant be asked to get bookmarks in their region of travel, so they can move about more safely.
    -- The inty that stupidly warps gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system.

    Who do many of the nay-sayers in this thread wrongly think will be hit:
    -- Gate campers that sit on a bubble all day, because they're smart enough to bring an insta-lock ship with them!

    This change doesn't improve the game, it dumbs it down for the ill-prepared. It encourages carebears to bubble wrap their gates, cause now they can travel in and out of system easily with a cheap interceptor.

    This change is just bad!
    Schmata Bastanold
    In Boobiez We Trust
    #39 - 2013-09-27 19:28:29 UTC
    I think you are too focused on inties change and you are missing core feature announced yesterday. There will be nobody in null for you to chase or try to bait into traps after Rubicon hits TQ, all null dwellers will be in hisec taking over POCOs and killing game. That's what "paying customers" say so it must be true.

    Invalid signature format
    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #40 - 2013-09-27 19:29:41 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Your both missing the big picture...

    I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.

    With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.


    I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is.

    Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?









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