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Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are not acceptable!!!

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#201 - 2013-09-29 18:45:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Othran wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So what are these "Jump Freighter" things I hear about?


400 times more expensive is what they are Roll


Well I thought the extra cargo space they have might be relevent, since there are apparently such amazing numbers of "carebears" flitting about 0.0 in Interceptors with Titan skillbooks in their holds these days that it's worth keeping an entire T2 shipclass irrelevant rather than tilt the balance away from the noble players who bravely attempt to stem this torrent, nay, flood.

I mean, not like a dreamed up edge-case or anything.



Well if the high sec bears do it then why not clueless nullsec bears?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#202 - 2013-09-29 19:06:34 UTC
If clueless nullsec bears want to move high value cargo in interceptors where they can be at least potentialy caught, then I'm all for that.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
TharOkha
0asis Group
#203 - 2013-09-29 19:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Onyx Nyx wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway?


Low volume high value cargo.


PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos?


Disco domi?


Dont bother. baltec has already mentioned that this tactic is "too difficult" because you need many pilots to do it right. Irony is that this argument comes from a member of alliance notoriously known for blob tactics.

Effortless sitting/waiting on gate + bubbles with "turn on" button is the only valid tactic for catching pilots with greater flying skills.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
TharOkha
0asis Group
#204 - 2013-09-29 19:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
baltec1 wrote:

Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.


I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#205 - 2013-09-29 19:23:29 UTC
Bubbles should be removed because they lead to threads like this.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#206 - 2013-09-29 20:48:01 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.


I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.


I have petitioned it several times and I have been told its bannable only when its causing enough lag to affect server. Otherwise its valid gameplay to jetcan trash all around and decloak ships. It makes me sad panda, really.
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#207 - 2013-09-29 20:54:18 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:
Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. When should you be able to be ago abs still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship


Avoiding bubbles is extremely easy! Don't warp gate to gate! Bounce off bookmarks, bounce off celestials, bounce off anomalies, etc. I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!

And bubbles are one of the best mechanics CCP has ever introduced to the game. The ability to set engagement distances, the ability to surprise a target that doesn't expect to leave warp at your bubble's edge... This has extreme tactical value, and are by far one of the best mechanics in the game.

p.s. Your "I hate bubbles mantra" (a.k.a. please make nullsec travel safer for me) is EXACTLY why this change is simply terrible!


no you jst want to be lazy! yu want it on easy mode not anyone else! use a dictor or hic! or what even a warp scrambler! who would of thought!
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#208 - 2013-09-29 21:04:25 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.


I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.


Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds...

An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.-

We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man.

I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment.

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2013-09-29 21:11:24 UTC
Operative X10-4 wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.


I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.


Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds...

An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.-

We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man.

I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment.

I have to agree with the last part of your post. I can't see what use an intie would be for high seccers in null anyway. What are they going to do with them? Besides its very easy atm to take a cov ops to any region n null and find a wormhole back to highsec and then move useful ships in that way.

I'd be happy if they threw away all these new mechanics and just gave caps ability to jump themselves, get rid of cyno's. Way more people in null if hot drop threat was nullified (pun intended).

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#210 - 2013-09-29 21:29:59 UTC
Onyx Nyx wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway?


Low volume high value cargo.


PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos?


I dunno but when I needed a titan book moved from highsec to 0.0 I paid a jump freighter service to move it

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
TharOkha
0asis Group
#211 - 2013-09-30 05:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Operative X10-4 wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.


I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.


Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds...

An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.-

We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man.

I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment.


What surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.

Yes T3 cov/null is expensive (500M +) but it has also a lot more HP. You cannot pop T3 with several smartbombs but definitely you can pop low HP ceptor. So yes, nullceptors would be used as cheap throw away intel ships but they will be easy to kill if you set up your gatecamp correctly.

Just be prepared that smartbombs should be used more in gatecamps. And i think it is good, because while to fly nullified cloaked T3 demand some skills (perfect timing for aligment/warp + cloak) nullsec gatecamps does not need any skills. Just turn on bubble and wait and you will certainly catch almost everything.

Oh and if smarts will be used more often, there is a chance that there will be a lot more kills of those "uncatcheable" T3s. as smarts decloaks.

Quote:
To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans, hundreds...


Why so greedy? Just drop tens of cans (not bannable), maybe you will not catch everything but your chances will increase exponentially.

Or is this thread just pathetic whining that gatecampsers should have the right to catch everything with 100% success rate?

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Sh0plifter
Underworld Property Accounting Partnership
#212 - 2013-09-30 06:16:35 UTC
So, lets keep the weak ship weak. Lets not make it harder to kill 'cause we need to feel relevant and our killboards green.

**** the inty changes, we only use cap ships anyways in null. Lets keep all frigs 100% killable with drag bubble camps 'cause I'm a ******.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#213 - 2013-09-30 07:37:35 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
\\
Reason 2:
  • Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!




    • I think this is the larger problem. Maybe Interceptors get a passive IN module that allows them to turn it on/off?



    ^^^ This

    Honestly that would gave the pilots more tactics to play with and create a bit of an uncertainty when they come on grid. I like the idea personally of the on/off

    @dominousnolen

    "Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #214 - 2013-09-30 08:18:37 UTC
    TharOkha wrote:


    What surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.




    And yet here we are saying its a bad thing. Getting intel even easier with a system that is almost idiot proof is not something we want, dispite the fact it would make our lives even easier.
    TharOkha
    0asis Group
    #215 - 2013-09-30 09:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
    baltec1 wrote:
    TharOkha wrote:


    What surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.




    And yet here we are saying its a bad thing. Getting intel even easier with a system that is almost idiot proof is not something we want, dispite the fact it would make our lives even easier.


    Well and all i am saying is that this "getting intel easier" case will prevail only if you dont change gatecamp tactics.

    BTW: Isn't nowadays nullsec gatecamps also idiot proof? Just turn on bubble and lets wait? Now all you have to do is turn on bubble and deploy few disco BSes around the gate to increase the chances to instapop ceptors (or decloak covop capable ships). What a horrible change Roll

    CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
    Signal11th
    #216 - 2013-09-30 09:37:47 UTC
    Ok so we know that CCP are going to bring this in, all we need to figure out now is why the Goons need it.....P

    God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #217 - 2013-09-30 09:56:35 UTC
    Signal11th wrote:
    Ok so we know that CCP are going to bring this in, all we need to figure out now is why the Goons need it.....P


    We can toss our brave newbees in cepters into any given system and know they will probably make it. Nobody puts the 30 to 50 smartbombing BS needed to cover a gate on any gatecamp. Regional gates are all but garenteed to be easy to get past.

    We can also have our brave newbees bounce around NC/N3 renter space and bypass the bubble traps.
    KatanTharkay
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #218 - 2013-09-30 10:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: KatanTharkay
    baltec1 wrote:
    Regional gates are all but garenteed to be easy to get past.


    Except for Minmatar regional gates, those are bugged and don't have a box covering the whole structure. They are most of the time bubbled. Ex 7Q-8Z2 regional gate.
    Silvetica Dian
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #219 - 2013-09-30 12:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Silvetica Dian
    Karrl Tian wrote:
    Bubble camper tears.....best tears.



    not just bubble campers but also null miners and nullbear tears.
    Add in the fact that most people don't read patch notes and so will come back to make endless tear filled threads after the patch hits and this warp speed change along with the intie changes are going to be the gift that keeps on giving.
    No wonder we got a corpwide mail instructing newbros to train intie b4 november so we can help with the tear harvesting.
    This year will be a rich and bountiful harvest indeed.
    Thankyou OP for the early crop.

    Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
    Tikitina
    Doomheim
    #220 - 2013-09-30 13:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikitina
    Andski wrote:

    I dunno but when I needed a titan book moved from highsec to 0.0 I paid a jump freighter service to move it


    I just clone-jumped to hi-sec and injected it.


    As far as this thread goes,... I keep imagining a dog chasing its tail with a smoke grenade in its mouth.