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Dear CCP please dont nerf the machariel

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-09-11 12:27:32 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
You need to put the glass of wine down, mate.

Mine's a shiraz. And i am in no fit state to theorycraft.


I haven't had a drop since the weekend.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#82 - 2013-09-11 18:53:03 UTC
Quote:
Hi sec people are hilarious.


I fly a mach in truesec too, nice attempt at character assassination.

Renter scrubs are even hilariouser.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#83 - 2013-09-11 19:52:53 UTC
I think it is funny people will say that ISK cost is not the balancing factor for ship balance.
The demand for a ship and its resource cost together will always give you a balanced ship choice.
However when it comes to SP spent vs a ship per category, that is where serious misbalance can occur.
Or in other words CCP has somewhat of a responsibility to secure that people have a semi-equal SP reward.

I think it would be awesome if factions were advertised more on their weaknesses and strong points.
Because lets be honest as is it's pretty much :Amarr=energy and fleet warfare. Caldari=E-war missiles jack of all trades master of none. Winmatar=Small gang warfare and weapons experts(most versatile). Gallente=Similar to Minmatar with stronger fleet warfare capabilities.
Pardon me if I missed something there but let people understand the empires/factions a little better from the get go.
Might be interesting to see certain factions focus on certain types of ships more, so some will have more frigates, or cruisers, or battleship not by multitudes of 2x or greater ofc but imho it is wouldn't be much different then as is since there are discrepancies between categorial strengths as is.
Nick Kumamoto
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-09-11 22:34:05 UTC
Xyrdiana wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.



Boo f*cking Hoo

The ship is overpowered and should be tuned down. NOT MUCH but still.


Do the same for the NM and the Vindi then....

Most of what I write in terms of posts and/or comments is meant as "tongue-in-cheek", i.e. part irony, part sarcasm but meant in good fun.

On a more serious note. I want to marry CCP karkur. Is there a EVE dating service I can call?

Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#85 - 2013-09-11 23:29:28 UTC
Nick Kumamoto wrote:
Xyrdiana wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.



Boo f*cking Hoo

The ship is overpowered and should be tuned down. NOT MUCH but still.


Do the same for the NM and the Vindi then....

Because we all see NM and Vindi fleets all the time in PvP...

I personally have never seen a PvP Nightmare. I know it happens from time to time, but it's a very rare occurence. Vindicators are somewhat more common, but see very little PvP use compared to the Mach.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-09-11 23:36:05 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Hi sec people are hilarious.


I fly a mach in truesec too, nice attempt at character assassination.

Renter scrubs are even hilariouser.



What ever gave you the idea that I was a renter?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-09-11 23:40:51 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
[
Because we all see NM and Vindi fleets all the time in PvP...

I personally have never seen a PvP Nightmare. I know it happens from time to time, but it's a very rare occurence. Vindicators are somewhat more common, but see very little PvP use compared to the Mach.


I've flown in a couple mach fleets. Like 4.

Every other mach I have ever seen in anger was someone roaming with a sniper or just hot dropping it for lols.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#88 - 2013-09-12 04:31:31 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
[
Because we all see NM and Vindi fleets all the time in PvP...

I personally have never seen a PvP Nightmare. I know it happens from time to time, but it's a very rare occurence. Vindicators are somewhat more common, but see very little PvP use compared to the Mach.


I've flown in a couple mach fleets. Like 4.

Every other mach I have ever seen in anger was someone roaming with a sniper or just hot dropping it for lols.

Which is still likely more than you've seen any NM/Vindi fleets or even ships used in PvP.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-09-12 04:45:50 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
[
Because we all see NM and Vindi fleets all the time in PvP...

I personally have never seen a PvP Nightmare. I know it happens from time to time, but it's a very rare occurence. Vindicators are somewhat more common, but see very little PvP use compared to the Mach.


I've flown in a couple mach fleets. Like 4.

Every other mach I have ever seen in anger was someone roaming with a sniper or just hot dropping it for lols.

Which is still likely more than you've seen any NM/Vindi fleets or even ships used in PvP.



I've flow a vindi in PvP. Unfortunately our cyno got popped and I actually missed the fight that time.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#90 - 2013-09-12 18:56:06 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

Which is still likely more than you've seen any NM/Vindi fleets or even ships used in PvP.



I've flow a vindi in PvP. Unfortunately our cyno got popped and I actually missed the fight that time.

Which is to say, you've flown a Vindi once in PvP, but you didn't even get to fight. On the other hand you've flown in more than one Machariel fleet, and I've heard nothing about PvP Nightmares. I'm still not seeing an argument to nerf the Vindi and Nightmare just because they nerf the Mach, which was the "start" of this string of conversation:




Nick Kumamoto wrote:
Xyrdiana wrote:

Boo f*cking Hoo

The ship is overpowered and should be tuned down. NOT MUCH but still.


Do the same for the NM and the Vindi then....


Unless of course this fool thinks that PvE balance is important.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-09-12 18:59:55 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

Which is still likely more than you've seen any NM/Vindi fleets or even ships used in PvP.



I've flow a vindi in PvP. Unfortunately our cyno got popped and I actually missed the fight that time.

Which is to say, you've flown a Vindi once in PvP, but you didn't even get to fight. On the other hand you've flown in more than one Machariel fleet, and I've heard nothing about PvP Nightmares.



By all means though, link some battle reports of all of the mach fleets that are roaming all over tearing up the universe.


Bet you don't find one that is much more than a gank, because they may be faster than battlecruises, they have less tank.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-09-12 19:36:53 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

Which is still likely more than you've seen any NM/Vindi fleets or even ships used in PvP.



I've flow a vindi in PvP. Unfortunately our cyno got popped and I actually missed the fight that time.

Which is to say, you've flown a Vindi once in PvP, but you didn't even get to fight. On the other hand you've flown in more than one Machariel fleet, and I've heard nothing about PvP Nightmares.



By all means though, link some battle reports of all of the mach fleets that are roaming all over tearing up the universe.


Bet you don't find one that is much more than a gank, because they may be faster than battlecruises, they have less tank.


The pricetag that is not supposed to be a balance factor might have something to do with those ships not seeing THAT much use but that does not eman they are good/bad/OP/UP. With all the people waying null is super dangerous with the risk of "hotdrop o'clock" happening, maybe people don;t want to go around in 1bill fitted ships even if they good.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#93 - 2013-09-12 22:09:36 UTC
Onictus wrote:
By all means though, link some battle reports of all of the mach fleets that are roaming all over tearing up the universe.


Bet you don't find one that is much more than a gank, because they may be faster than battlecruises, they have less tank.



Wait have I just been imagining Snuff Box for all these years?
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#94 - 2013-09-13 03:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
I hate people who claim ships need to be nerfed because they can't use their brain to determine the weaknesses of the ship and then exploit them.

Literally makes me so mad.

The mach is one of the most balanced ships in the game that fulfills it's role, doesn't need a buff, and doesn't need a nerf. It is strong when used in the hands of a competent player, and utterly terrible when used by somebody who doesn't have a brain, exactly how it should be.

There are no good reasons to nerf it.

It's not that fast, battlecruisers are the same speed, it's fine to have a battleship that goes BC speeds, why not? It's not like it can't be easily caught by virtually all ships being flown nowadays. (All frigs, all cruisers, all HAC's) The only thing that can't catch it is another battleship, lol. And please don't whine about it's linked speed, that has nothing to do with the ship itself.

It's not tanky, it has t1 resists and it's not really feasible to run an active shield tank to a great degree of effectiveness due to the fact that you can only have two mid slots to tank with and even then you don't have enough cap to burn your MWD and use the booster.

It's damage application is not good. People look at EFT and say OMG SO GOOD DAMAGE, 900dps at 50km, but apparently nobody understands how falloff actually works, and don't understand how big the role of tracking is in actual damage application (the mach's tracking is pretty bad, just fyi).

In short the mach can easily be destroyed by any competent player. You really shouldn't be expecting to solo it in a talos, but it's quite easy to take down with two ships, or one ship that exploits it's weaknesses (cap life, reliance on an MWD, low tracking, low tank).

For example, just a couple days ago I was killing a mach, and would have killed it had his friend not warped in with a vigilant and webbed me so the mach could track me. It's laughable that people call nerf on ships that barely get flown in the first place. Doesn't make sense. If machs were being flown left and right and owning evreything, sure, but they AREN'T in either respect.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#95 - 2013-09-13 03:19:24 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:


There are no good reasons to nerf it.




You can down play the Mach as much as you want (I agree to a certain extent) but that still doesn't change the fact that it is better than almost all other ships in it's class. No amount of morons trying to cruise solo in a BS makes up for the fact that it is better when used properly than the other Pirate BS's.

Now if you think the other pirate BS's should be buffed up to the Mach's level than I can get behind that but you can't honestly think the Nightmare is on the same level as the Mach right now.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#96 - 2013-09-13 03:31:18 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Angsty Teenager wrote:


There are no good reasons to nerf it.




You can down play the Mach as much as you want (I agree to a certain extent) but that still doesn't change the fact that it is better than almost all other ships in it's class. No amount of morons trying to cruise solo in a BS makes up for the fact that it is better when used properly than the other Pirate BS's.

Now if you think the other pirate BS's should be buffed up to the Mach's level than I can get behind that but you can't honestly think the Nightmare is on the same level as the Mach right now.


Hell, I'm not really putting an opinion as to whether it should be nerfed or not, really. This is basically what I keep saying. Earlier on page 5 a whole discussion started because someone stupid said "if you nerf the Mach then nerf the NM and Vindi!"

That really doesn't make much sense. The Mach is simply better than the other two, so I don't see the sense in that. I don't fly the Mach. I've considered it, but I don't. I can't argue for nerfs too much. I can complain about things, but it's largely/completely unfounded. I'm just getting sick of people arguing that the other pirate BS's are on par with the Mach.

The Vindi's good, but not quite as great. The Bhaalgorn? It has its uses. The NM and Rattler? Yeah, I wouldn't PvP in them.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-09-13 04:50:32 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Angsty Teenager wrote:


There are no good reasons to nerf it.




You can down play the Mach as much as you want (I agree to a certain extent) but that still doesn't change the fact that it is better than almost all other ships in it's class. No amount of morons trying to cruise solo in a BS makes up for the fact that it is better when used properly than the other Pirate BS's.

Now if you think the other pirate BS's should be buffed up to the Mach's level than I can get behind that but you can't honestly think the Nightmare is on the same level as the Mach right now.



Whoa wait, better how....and for what?

NC. Is running rattler fleets as a main doctrine. Vindi was war deccer candy for a long long time......not sure if they still use them.

So yeah mach can be fast, so what. It doesn't push the dps of vindi or nightmare, doesnt have the tank of any of them.....it just goes fast.


ZOMG ZOMG NERF!!!!!!!!

Pathetic.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-09-13 11:01:45 UTC
Slaved Lovechild wrote:
Got it it's way better than the Maelstrom. I don't think you'll get any argument to that. The Mach is also over a billion ISK. Of course it's better!... If it wasn't why would anyone pay that. By some posters logic the navy version of the Hurricane is OP. How about T3 cruisers...

Anyways this is all moot because it's just rumor till it's announced by CCP. The Mach was already nerfed and I don't see any major nerf happening.


It's way better than a Vargur too, except in lack range and active tank, and it has such a massive extra PG it's not funny.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-09-13 12:53:44 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Slaved Lovechild wrote:
Got it it's way better than the Maelstrom. I don't think you'll get any argument to that. The Mach is also over a billion ISK. Of course it's better!... If it wasn't why would anyone pay that. By some posters logic the navy version of the Hurricane is OP. How about T3 cruisers...

Anyways this is all moot because it's just rumor till it's announced by CCP. The Mach was already nerfed and I don't see any major nerf happening.


It's way better than a Vargur too, except in lack range and active tank, and it has such a massive extra PG it's not funny.


And maelstrom makes both of their available PG look like a joke.

That has anything to do with it....how? Other than Vagur sucks (good luck with that in F&I)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-09-13 13:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Onictus wrote:
Whoa wait, better how....and for what?

- better for lvl4s because of selectable damage type, higher scan resolution, speed and agility.
- better for incursions because of higher alpha, higher scan resolution, speed and agility.
- better for small scale pvp because of selectable damage type, capless weapons, higher scan resolution, speed and agility.
- better for fleet pvp selectable damage type, higher alpha, higher scan resolution, speed and agility.

you're welcome.

I should buy an Ishtar.