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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#801 - 2013-07-30 19:14:13 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The Vaga is getting buffed at nearly everything and people are complaining about how worthless it is now; I remain confused.



nearly everything what?


He is being buffed on a signle thing.. on a scenario that no vaga pilot stick its vaga ever...
It's getting a bigger tank, better fitting, more cap, longer range targeting, harder to jam, higher max targets, a 50% MWD reduction, and all it lost was 9m/s and a launcher that no one uses.

But yes, one thing entirely.
nikar galvren
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#802 - 2013-07-30 19:23:00 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The Vaga is getting buffed at nearly everything and people are complaining about how worthless it is now; I remain confused.



nearly everything what?


He is being buffed on a signle thing.. on a scenario that no vaga pilot stick its vaga ever...
It's getting a bigger tank, better fitting, more cap, longer range targeting, harder to jam, higher max targets, a 50% MWD reduction, and all it lost was 9m/s and a launcher that no one uses.

But yes, one thing entirely.

Latest pass puts the Vaga 3.75 m/s below the old maximum. Haven't calculated the final speed loss, but not that much slower...
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#803 - 2013-07-30 19:24:20 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The Vaga is getting buffed at nearly everything and people are complaining about how worthless it is now; I remain confused.



nearly everything what?


He is being buffed on a signle thing.. on a scenario that no vaga pilot stick its vaga ever...
It's getting a bigger tank, better fitting, more cap, longer range targeting, harder to jam, higher max targets, a 50% MWD reduction, and all it lost was 9m/s and a launcher that no one uses.

But yes, one thing entirely.


Better fitting you mean +5 CPU.
Longer range isn't that big of a deal because it cannot fit any long range guns.
50% MWD reduction everybody thinks is a general waste. I mean it sounds good but it isn't that amazing.


The only things that are decent is the cap and being harder to jam. Thats it.

I wish the re-balance spiced things up instead of just buffing things across the board for every ship without ANY thought into what it will even effect.

These ships are basically what they used to be last year with a few extra tricks, not really digging that.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#804 - 2013-07-30 19:28:49 UTC
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?

Dodixie > Hek
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#805 - 2013-07-30 19:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
These hacs are boring.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#806 - 2013-07-30 19:33:55 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Stupid Idea: EvE is lacking a dedicated Cyno boat. Have them a second role bonus "500% to HP while cynosural field generator is active". This would make them pretty unique and give them a special role.



last time i checked covert recon ships were pretty much dedicated cyno ships
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#807 - 2013-07-30 19:37:27 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?



There are decent trade offs for that. Ishtar has more turrets, and better bonuses and resists.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Boss McNab
Tactical Chaos Corp
#808 - 2013-07-30 19:38:48 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Stupid Idea: EvE is lacking a dedicated Cyno boat. Have them a second role bonus "500% to HP while cynosural field generator is active". This would make them pretty unique and give them a special role.



last time i checked covert recon ships were pretty much dedicated cyno ships


and HIC`s are pretty much perfect, they lock the target down, have huge amount of tank, and light a cyno
Boss McNab
Tactical Chaos Corp
#809 - 2013-07-30 19:39:16 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?


Because CCP RISE and CCP FOZZIE thats why
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#810 - 2013-07-30 19:41:08 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?

Because, wait... What!?
Try 20 less power grid.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#811 - 2013-07-30 19:47:16 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
I think if you are trying to make these ships really worthwhile in straight combat while they have competition from BCs, ABCs, T3 cruisers, T1 cruisers, Navy cruisers, Pirate Cruisers, BSs and CSs then you are fighting a really hard battle just to jam yet another class of vessels into a massively overcrowded marketplace.

T2 is supposed to be about specialisation. Most, if not all, other T2 ships have a clear and undeniable field of specialisation. When a massive list of ship classes already serve in the field of simple "tank and gank" it seems bizzarre that you would not pull the only T2 class competing in that field and move it out of the crowd a little.

Give them an actual role. EHP/DPS is already oversubscribed. Given they have to remain in the crowded EHP/DPS bracket to some degree, you have to give them a role bonus that differentiates them properly and not just something that looks like it was stolen from a T3 subsystem.

Make them skirmishers and give them a significantly improved ability to disengage.


I think they should all be made into small gang PvP powerhouses, somehow balanced so they don't really scale well into blobs (sorry AHACS).

Let the blobs fly their T1 stuff, T2 should be geared towards the professionals.

But this will never happen.

The best bonus you can provide to solo/small gang PvP ships is the ability to engage larger gangs without getting so easily swamped. This generally means maintaining some range and using whatever methods you have at your disposal to counter enemy tackle. This has been the recipe for all sorts of successful solo and small gang docterines.

I personally do not agree that any ship should be purely solo/small gang focused, because I think it is both unnecessary and wasteful. I do however think that ships like the HAC are an ideal choice for bonuses that cater for solo/small gang work as well as opening up new options in larger gangs.

I also do not believe that a cloaking device or a jump drive should be a requirement for a ship to be used for skirmishing.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#812 - 2013-07-30 19:49:56 UTC
HAC special bonus.

Ability to fit Micro Jump Drives and fitting requirement decreases.

Imagine that..
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#813 - 2013-07-30 19:49:57 UTC
Boss McNab wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?

Because CCP RISE and CCP FOZZIE thats why

This would be witty if it wasn't based on a statement that was off by a factor of 10.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#814 - 2013-07-30 19:50:30 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The Vaga is getting buffed at nearly everything and people are complaining about how worthless it is now; I remain confused.



nearly everything what?


He is being buffed on a signle thing.. on a scenario that no vaga pilot stick its vaga ever...


Pretty sure the standard Vaga has had an ASB on it since they were introduced mate...


An XL takes too much compromise to fit, and a Large is too terrible to fit.

TLDR ASB Vaga? No way, buffer ftw.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#815 - 2013-07-30 19:53:00 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
HAC special bonus.

Ability to fit Micro Jump Drives and fitting requirement decreases.

Imagine that..


horrible idea as i stated in round one it would kill the purpose of mjd's on bs.

it must stay a bs excluseive
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#816 - 2013-07-30 19:54:21 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Stupid Idea: EvE is lacking a dedicated Cyno boat. Have them a second role bonus "500% to HP while cynosural field generator is active". This would make them pretty unique and give them a special role.



Force Recons


Kagura Nikon wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:

  • Munnin - Honestly, I think the Munnin looks a little too good now. But vOv.



Two words: Tornado Fleet.

Don't say sig resolution and tracking because I have one word for that: Huginns (webs & paints, problem solved)



That is more a matter of.. Attack BC ****** up the balance in the game completely. They hurt BAttlehip and HACs roles too much.



I agree, they were a bad idea, we all know that, but how do we fix them? Nobody has brought up any good suggestions. (Remove them from EVE foreva!!!)


How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#817 - 2013-07-30 19:55:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Boss McNab wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Why... why is the Ishtar packing over 200 less PG than the Vexor navy issue...?

Because CCP RISE and CCP FOZZIE thats why

This would be witty if it wasn't based on a statement that was off by a factor of 10.


Yeah, my bad, I looked at Pyfa and not the real numbers. What?

Dodixie > Hek
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#818 - 2013-07-30 19:58:11 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
These hacs are boring.


So boring that I found my self playing with an ishtar Fit with 47K EHP tank, cap stable, doing 2074m/s and capable of doing 900 DPS. All of these without a single gang bonuses. Yeah they sound boring has hell Roll
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#819 - 2013-07-30 20:00:40 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
These hacs are boring.


So boring that I found my self playing with an ishtar Fit with 47K EHP tank, cap stable, doing 2074m/s and capable of doing 900 DPS. All of these without a single gang bonuses. Yeah they sound boring has hell Roll


Ishtar is the only one that I'm impressed by.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#820 - 2013-07-30 20:02:05 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
These hacs are boring.


So boring that I found my self playing with an ishtar Fit with 47K EHP tank, cap stable, doing 2074m/s and capable of doing 900 DPS. All of these without a single gang bonuses. Yeah they sound boring has hell Roll


Pft, the only good one is the Ishtar. Which is why they are like 225mil in Jita right now.