Player Features and Ideas Discussion

To the gallente trolls saying FINALLY you have a solo pwnmobile, wtf is wrong with you? The idea of the HAC rebalance isnt to give to players ONE solo pwnmobile.

And finally, to gents asking about how to 'nerf' the sisi Deimos, well where to begin, the 4th mid wasnt required, but was given as essentially Med neut counter. The only same/sub class counter to the Deimos then is TDs.

To those asking 'how':

Since the utopian option of 'lets buff ALL HACs so they can brawl as effectively as the Deimos' will never happen, my suggestion, in addition to the many, many, many times already stated in this thread, nerf the cap/cap recharge on Deimos, so it frankly at least FEEL some pressure when under a med neut AND half its fall-off bonus, if youre going to give it the local rep bonus, improved local reps modules AND a 4th mid.

Seriously, where is Rise? This Blaster boat lovefest is getting a bit stupid.

Now, it's pretty apparent you don't fly or understand armor ships.

Yes, that AAR not needing cap was my fubar, was thinking ASBs. Need to stop rapid posting on phone at work :)

Eh, edited it out. Still doesnt change the fact, Mr. Rise, please balance the 8 HACs. What you need to nerf and boost, im sure you know well enough. I think we can all agree that right now theyre NOT all at parity. And since this is the HAC balance pass after years, lets please use it efficiently.



So well put. Agree 100%.

Or is it the contrary? Munnin and Eagle are ok and what they really want, and everything else is wrong?

Right you are, but how do you justify the Deimos being the only (cost) effective HAC?

It is in a good place powerwise in relation to the various lines up/down .. pretty much where I'd place a HAC if I came in from outside and asked to create a niche/hull to fill the gap between cruisers and BC/BS. The ability to solo anything, defeat non-habitual PvP'ers in 2:1's and draw blood before perishing in 3-4:1 fights .. all for the low low price of a few hours worth of ISK generation.

All the HACs should be where the Deimos is, which means either all but the Deimos should receive buffs to meet the bar or the Deimos must take a massive hit.

- The capacitor swap I suggested be conducted with the Zealot barely touches the Deimos thanks to that gratuitous midslot but would mean the world to the Zealot which is two birds with one stone -> pre-nerfs HAC line by lowering the bar set by the Deimos ever so slightly and pretty much sorts the Zealot (still want the medium Gatlings though )
- Sacrilege needs application/major damage increase or some other way to control fights, partial to the neut/nos bonus myself because of versatility .. gives a leg up in solo with option to act as heavy tackle/de-capifier in larger bouts.

- Cerberus looks like a fairly solid add-in dps platform but needs something to do that does not require it to orbit at 60km, could add 15m3 drones or something but my missile brawling experience is limited to active armour Sacs so uncertain.
- Eagle is just pathetic. Slow, fat and tanky .. can't run, can't engage on its own terms. Either it is sped up significantly or it is given the ability to do what it must do sitting on its fat-ass.
Replace one of the hybrid range bonuses with a +7.5% hybrid tracking bonus and if necessary increase the remaining to +15%/lvl.

- Deimos as proposed but swap cap with Zealot (see above).
- Ishtar might do well to have the heavy bonus being expanded to included light/medium but the tracking component should then be changed to orbit speed (ie. all speed bonus) to encourage pilots to bring the right composition as mediums will be iffy against small targets. Increase bay by 25-50m3 to make the choices a little easier.

- Vagabond .. I am loathe to mess with auto boats due to previous Winmatar cycle, but it needs something to set it apart so make it the active shield equivalent to the Deimos.
What if it was Fleet Phooned: adding 4 launcher slots, change damage bonuses to 7.5% RoF for HML and AML and a 10% RoF to projectiles .. gives missile kiting or auto brawling option. Falloff bonus I am uncertain of .. should be used to augment either the brawling or kiting aspect but which I don't know.
- Muninn is trickier as its the HAC version of the Hurricanes (armour focus). Change RoF to damage and increase both to 7.5% .. ever so slightly lower dps than Hurricanes but with higher alpha, better application and range. Basically an artillery platform that doesn't automatically fail with autos.

End: Would rather buff everything upwards than nerf the Deimos as I truly believe it is where/what the HACs should be.

Vaga with arties? -of course it can needs to do trade offs like Deimos does but yes it can

Autos Munnin? -why don't you try it out? -did you already projected dps potential out of it? -you didn't that's why.

Eagle with blasters gets battleship EHP with a huge resist profile and traded some speed to actually hit with blasters at rails Deimost range.

No problems or imbalances here, just tradeoffs, you guys need to be a bit more creative and think/see out of your little box.

What are the deimos drawbacks?
Munnin can become an excelente brawler, so good that I think the 3rd mid can be removed from the deimos, after all is not doing nothing in there right? And the Blaster Eagle can really put some damage, but just for a few seconds until deimos closes in. But that was not really the point of my post and I'm not in the mood to make you a drawing.

Its like you never heard of a tracking disruptor....

Or just alpha the non-buffer holding duakl repper hip into the floor. Use rails just hook it and run if you can't close on it...with blasters it has to fight in scram range.

nevermind the fact that if anyone notices you using rails on a deimos, you're pretty much screwed as you wont hit anything that gets in brawling range outside of a battleship.


also forum lurker here and i just want to point out that this argument in general right now is pretty hilarious, you wont or almost never see a dual repped deimos on TQ post patch, fitted like that the ship will have so little armor hp that you could essentially alpha the ship or bleed into hull in between each rep cycle. 800 plate (or if implanted 1600) + MAAR is pretty much the brawling way to go and you wont last forever like that.

also the removal of the incoming 4th slot is pretty amusing as well, thorax, vigilant and phobos all have 5 highs (excluding phobos' bubble high) and 4 mids, why is it the T2 variant should do without? The removal of the high makes sense because again 5 highs throughout the thorax hulls.

as for the statement about deimos' speed, you do realize it's armor based and it would be losing it's speed lead it has on the rest of the hacs (barring vagabond which makes sense in it's own right). The only reason they increased the speed of the ship is to bring it's speed in line with your typical brawling shield fit and it has a large sig radius to compensate.

i lurk these topics all the time just to keep an eye out on whats to come but honestly some of you should just pipe down as you do not know how to fit a ship, know anything about armor tanking (or shield tanking in some topics) and basically have no combat experience what so ever and it shows.