Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Im not talking about tq atm, im talking about sis where they buffed the deimos rep power compared to tq by over 50%.


Plate + aar frit on non frigs are bad in general.

The whole ship wont, nor will the hac class in general. They will be just as bad post patch as they are now. The problem is the price of the things and the fact that they offer nothing unique. The fine tuning of balancing is of very little relevance.

If i want as much performance per isk as possible from a cruiser sized ship i run t1 cruisers, if i want the best performance possible of a cruiser i run with t3s. ABCs are what hacs should have been,

They are also not HACs and have not yet been through the wringer, I have no doubt that the Devs will find some ingenious way to mess them up as well.

Also not HACs and if you look at them you'd know that their eminent solo capability hinges on one, count it ONE, playstyle. They are superb kiters but are distinctly sub-par if they want to brawl .. no other T1 hulls have the same narrow niche .. and Nomen has 50m3 drones which does exactly squat.
You have one guess as to why they don't function inside scram/web range (hint: starts with "T", rhymes with fracking).
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That is just it, adding drones does not constitute anti-frig capability, against a noob frig pilot perhaps but anyone in FW, and I guess RvB as well, who flies frigs a lot will tell you that an OV tab for drones makes short work of both light and medium. They pose a credible and real threat to frigates in swarms, but then the frigate has much more pressing matters to attend to making the point moot.
EC drones will help once in a while, but I flat out refuse to accept balancing based on what is generally regarded as a broken thing, even people who abuse the snot of EC drones support a revision of them .. hell, CCP themselves have said they don't like them for Goddess sake.

And I would be perfectly fine with that kind of balancing if it was applied as a general rule, but it is only the Amarr hulls that have to make abhorrent sacrifices in order to function outside of their niche .. I'd even go so far as to say they are the only HACs with a niche.

Equal opportunity is what I want, nothing more. Zealot would work brilliantly if we had access to a gatling type medium gun so the hull itself is not really at fault, but unless said gatling is added then something has to be changed for equal opportunity to exist.

Sacrilege is just 'meh'. Same as always but with a range bonus it will rarely if ever need .. missiles, HAMs in particular, require tackle or free mids for painting .. what good is +50% range if you have to be on top of the target to apply any damage in the first place and where is the speed that is necessary to make that range matter?
Compare to Cerberus and cringe .. that thing will almost outdamage and certainly outrange and outrun the Sacrilege using AML's which double as the ultimate frigate swatters and frees up more fittings than it can use.

In short: Amarr hulls are the only ones of which I cannot confidently say "I can make that work" in more than a few engagements and/or engagement types.

T2s specialise in areas, HACs happen to specialise in cap management. They also cant boost fleets or have battleship tank.

actually i've ben using it with 800 plate and single MAR, medium cap booster, 400 boosters. needs a small PG implant.

works very well until it encounters 3 heavy neuts on 120 degree cycles. and even then it doesn't die quickly.

deimos doesnt need a tracking bonus. the falloff bonus is useful as it allows the ship to hit anything in scram range. its also useful in the 200mm railgun fit.

It worked well for me with the ancillary until I encountered 2 opponents at once.

The 800 plate was not enough to see me through the reload. I prefer the predictability of the MAR, but I accept that it can't mitigate as much early-fight damage.

Jerrick, we've always seen eye to eye mate but I think it's ok that the HACs have better cap management than the CSs. The HACs are going to be in the brawl at the start and need to last the course. You (I) wouldn't commit the command ship to scram/neut range until the fight was clearly going in my favour.

I think this is where in practice the tactical advantage of the EOS may become apparent, since it can apply damage from 30km away via drones or sentries while maintaining its options.

Presumably the same is true of a rail-fitted astarte, and the minny ships.

In this use case, the EOS has the advantage of being able to engage at any range like a missile boat (with the obvious downside that drones can be blapped).

It seems to me to all balance out. Let's organise a 10v10 fight on Sisi and see how it works out?

The Deimos needs to be re-examined. It may not be Op in a fleet scenario, however solo / small gang it is simply too effective with local reppers.

Check it out on the test server and you'll see how crazy it tanks.

I think the idea is that the deimos has, to this point, found itself constantly the target of energy neutralization. The capacitor reflects that it should be stable until is it neutralized. This should be a common problem for the deimos, due to the ranges in which it engages. You'll still need that cap booster, because even your guns turn off when neuted out in a hybrid ship. This isn't so with the other brawlers.

At least, I've yet to actually SEE a zealot deliberately enter neut range.

I couldn't believe how well you tanked it, honestly was ridiculous. It must be perma tanking about 500-600 dps while running guns and tackle.

It's one of the fastest hacs, is the highest dps hac (700ish dps with void, hammers, 5% med hybrid implants and 1 mag stab) and is also one of the tankiest sub caps in the game.

I don't think it's job is to do all of that at the same time which it currently does.

I'm not arguing removing the tank bonus, or changing speed, sig, or fittings. I simply (strongly) believe that it's cap recharge is too high and imo ALL of the hacs need to have their recharge looked into.

It simply makes no sense that a deimos is cap stable with a mar, tackle, and guns compared to an eos with 2x med nos,guns,tackle, and a marII that's not.