Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Honestly heavy missiles on Sac doesn't make much sense for the ship, maybe 5% damage+flighttime/velocity to HAMs to level would work better.

Delicate subject nonetheless.

The quick stuff:

Sticking with the HEAVY Assault/Attack Cruiser part

Since we're likely to stick with how the ships are now - There needs to be a choice on certain aspects, in my opinion.
Either all HACs in general should be really tanky, resilient - OR fast and hard to catch. But not both.


About Role: 50% reduction to MWD sig bloom
I find this contradicts with the use of the AB, making AB even less desired for. Of course, this is just an impression. I really find the AB very weak in its aspects. Even with the webbing and scramming, MWD still tend wins the day. Again, just an impression.

Other than that, I think it is better to give individual special role bonuses than just "all gets this thing". I'd be more for applying rare and awkward/unusual bonuses. I don't know, capable fitting Torp launchers, lower penalties to fitting and using 100mn Afterburner modules, migation to web/slowing debuffs - stuff like that. You know, unique traits.


Commentary:


The major problem I see with HACs has always been the mentality of them needing to do everything, deal monstrous dmg and be able to escape out of the mess at any given time - just seeing that from the last pages.

I for one would rather stay out of the theorycraft and debate as I do not use HACs anymore, somewhat for the reason mentioned above - (plus who gives a damn what I do or say ;D!).

Nevertheless, I find that there is too much of a comparisons focusing on making the ships more powerful than they already are. Yes, the very point of Tiericide is to get all ships the dreaded accessibility/utility they needed. However, I can still smell cookie cutter all over this one. While cookie cutters are not a serious issue, I can see that HACs in general will continue to be ships that will be spammed to oblivion from here on.

I'm probably sidetracking, so I'll get to the point I wanted to throw in:

I think there needs to be short thoughtful rehash on the traits and weaknesses of the HAC concept. Right now, it looks too messy. *Dramatization* All ships are just getting the best stats best bonuses etc, and then are just blindly being compared to each other in fashion of "wah wah, other ship has better stuff than mine".


Imo, there should be more focus on the racial/lore philosophies.
In this case, I'd really REALLY would suggest Vaga being a bit more paper and therefore a really fast ship. I know personal impressions are not asked for, but to me it has more of a "Strike Cruiser" - now that sounds the same as HAC, but prior- to the nano/speed nerfs, it was pretty much good in driveby shootings, or like some STUKA plane. But now, most of the time I see it just being a flimsy boat frightened to get tackled. It is the pilot of course who controls the ship, but it is just due to that reason of the speed nerf etc.

Taking the Vagabond as an example for others, I'd say, make it vulnerable, therefore faster. I'd even go as far and say remove drones and make it even faster, therefore less HP.
But I know that is unlikely to happen as everybody prefer this current behemoth version.

My other bizarre suggestion would be to bring in another set of ships; one having the new Vaga model, the other the older one - so we players could choose on the playstyle we prefer. We'd have the more vulnerable-yet-swift version and the more tankier/bruiser sort. But that is unlikely to happen.


In the end, I can only repeat what somebody recently said about the Tier3 BCs; these being capable of applying extreme dmg while at the same time being way too mobile. Sure, they're paper in the sense as I'd imagine it, but regarding their extreme stacking of BS-turrets - They're way too efficient.

...
Are you trolling? Or do you want the Ishtar to be an OP OMGWTFPWNMOBILE doing 2000 DPS?




Edit:

Removing the drones from the Vaga and removing HP in exchange for more speed is bad and anyone proposing it should feel bad. It is already among the fastest ships in the game (bar frigates), it doesn't need more speed, it needs more buffer and grid so it can compete with the LOLOP Cynabal.



Alternatively that would be good.

Actually it does... the sacrilege screems for damage range since it's slow. It was alright before the HAM pre nerf in wich could hit at 75KM with Javelin Missiles, but now Javelins hit at 30Km max in theory. With a 5% flight/velocity would hit at 37,5Km. wich is a laugh.

Indeed and afterthought maybe a tracking bonus would be much better for this ship and useful in every pvp situations:

The 10% tracking bonus on the SFI is absolutely fantastic, alpha with arties is good for a cruiser, dps with autos and tank is also pretty good imho and puts this ship on the right spot.

Now to make our Vaga a bit more interesting this tracking bonus would probably be the best bonus choice over the shield boost one and at the same time offer a larger window of pvp possibilities.

This. Remove the mwd bonus, reduce sig of each HAC by 25%, then add specific role bonuses for each one.

I think the major problem here is that all the HACS are treated differently to each other rather than a unified approach..

Vaga - is clearly 20km skirmish kitey ship and very fast but ls slower than the stabber and cynabal despite its description claiming it is the fastest cruiser

Eagle - is slow as hell sniper yet is also a brawler apparently .. ishtar, muninn and zealot are very similar but more speed

Deimos- is what exactly? brawler ot railboat? shield or armour?

Cerberus - a 200km missile sniper .... this is good how? .. a HAM slower but tankier and more dps heavy version of caracal would work nicely here

Sacrilege - is a brawler it seems but lacks enough lows to tank properly and is slow

So these are all very different to each other .. which is why people are asking what is the role of a HAC because looking at these they are all a bit random ..

I think people would prefer a more vaga approach than a sacrilege approach as brawling is very risky too put a 200mil ship into a fight when its likely to be outclassed in tank and dps by any bc for a fraction of the cost.

Also with the upcoming CS buff and navy bc's costing a similar amount but with battleship like tank and more dps why would you want a brawling HAC?

"If I'm supposed to be a rail gun kitting ship, why would someone fly me instead of the Eagle?" - Deimos

Well Deimos is a BLASTER boat :P

Disagree with anyone saying the Sacrilege shouldn't get the HML bonus. Why on earth not? Yes it is a slow ship that is better suited to HAM, but why should that mean it must be locked down to a single weapon type. Every other ship bonus can apply to both long and short range weapons of the class. A missile spewing, smallish sig, tanky armour ship able to fly at range could potentially be a nice ship to have. Who cares if it is slow - it's not like the Drake was ever bought for it's speed!

I'd like CCP to consider some other more unique role bonuses to make these more interesting. Also more interesting bonuses - I like the faction ships with the bonuses that are larger than 5-10%, just makes them a bit more interesting. Few random ideas without much thought into them... (probably all flawed ideas, but they stand out a bit)
-Resistance to webs?
-Role bonus that gave double damage but half rate of fire for better ammo/cap usage.
-Afterburner speed bonus
-Sig reduction on weaponry fitted?
-Role Bonus - not affected by negative effects from Armourplates/shield extenders and rigs?

Think outside the box! :)