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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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Author
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
#821 - 2013-07-19 18:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastil
vaga desperately needs 5 mids if its going to be an active tanker (the ASB isn't the only kind of shield booster you know...)

Not sure the best place to borrow the slot from,but I agree with some previous posts that the Hawk has 5. MWD, hardener point and booster isn't good enough for a ship to get an entire dedicated boost bonus.

having also read some comments on the deimos, and must point out that the deimos is STILL ****, and cant' do close range DPS. Why can't the gallente ALSO have close range DPS brawler HACs? They have 2 decent sniper boats now.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#822 - 2013-07-19 18:06:38 UTC
any reason why the caldari are so focused on long range now? just curious
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#823 - 2013-07-19 18:06:55 UTC
I spent a few hours looking at these changes and theorycrafting a little to see what could potentially happen with these changes. Overall, I'm rather unimpressed. Note, I am not looking at having them outshine T1 cruisers as much as they had before teiricide. However, their role is far too similar to the roles of BC's, and the only ship that may actually be viable after these changes that wasn't before is the cerb. Everything else either doesn't have a role that it shines in, or has its role enchroached on too much by other ships (namely, BC's).

Addressing the ships point by point:

Sacrilege:

Currently, it isn't flown. Basically, at all, by anyone. If you want HAM's, you use either a drake, a tengu, or a caracel. If you want heavies, you are an idiot.

With these changes, we have a bit more powergrid, though powergrid never really was a problem. We have a bit more capacitor and hp, but not enough to significantly change things. We have a smidge more speed and agility, but again, not really any significant changes. As we have more drone bay/bandwidth. Basically, the changes only boil down to the role bonus, more powergrid, more drone bay, and bonuses affecting heavy missiles as well.

As for fits, there are currently 3 "viable" fits for the sac. There is passive armor tank, active armor tank, and passive shield buffer.

The shield buffer fit is rather poor, as you have gaping EM/therm resist holes, but you can fit a MWD, point, 2 extenders, and nano's/BCU's in the lows. After these changes, this fit will be slightly more viable, but again it will only be used by people who can't fly a caracel, because the caracel fills that role better, for significantly cheaper.

The passive armor tank fit right now fits HAM's, 1 1600mm plate, 2 EANM's, a thermic plate, BCU, and then has 3 mids for scram/web/point/else. After these changes, it will still only have 65-70k EHP, because the additional powergrid doesn't allow it to fit more plates. It will be slightly more survivable under MWD. But to give any real benefit to this build, the ship would need more CPU.

The active armor tank, which runs off of a pair of medium armor reps, also really isn't improved. This fit had plenty of spare powergrid, and again was only really suffering from low CPU. It can't fit a large cap battery because of CPU, but it can fit a medium cap booster just fine right now.

Overall, the changes to the sac don't really give it any boost. And the sac is desperately in need of something to make it useful and useable. As it is right now, its only real role is that of a brawler, and it drastically outshined by all the t1 BC's. If you want a HAM brawler, the drake is still better. If you want an armor brawler, both the prophecy and the harb ar still better. And if you want either a HAM or HM nano/kite ship, the caracel is still better. This ship either needs more tank, more dps, or more manuverability, or it is going to continue to be unused, and outshined in every role.

Zelot:
Right now, the zelot is in a fine place for AHAC gangs. Admittedly, AHAC gangs is the only place it is useful, but it is pretty much the only HAC that is actually used right now. The changes made to it basically consist of making round numbers for its defense and mobility, meaning that the only change that comes in is the MWD sig radius reduction. Sadly for it, it doesn't really have the CPU to actually fit a MWD, without making pretty significant compromises elsewhere. If you are happy with the zelot remaining only used in AHAC gangs, that is fine. But if you wanted it to be viable for any other role, it could use a bit of a buff.

Cerberus:
The cerb gets another launcher, a fairly nice buff to its CPU and powergrid, a minor buff to its capacitor, a pretty decent buff to its speed, a smidge of drone bay, and its hp's rounded to whole numbers. The powergrid buff is basically enough to allow it to actually fit its new 6th launcher, while the CPU buff gives enough for the launcher and a bit more besides.

Overall, these changes give it a nice bonus to being a kiting HAM ship, with HAM's able to hit out to 45km using standard missiles. Combined with the recent buffs to HAM's, and this ship actually becomes an upgrade to the caracel. In this role, the cerberus gets a 200dps boost, a 15km range boost, and a 15k ish EHP boost over the caracel. Adding to this the bonus for sig radius using MWD, and we may actually see Cerbs in use. The heavy missile build for the cerb still has unnecessarily excessive range, and after the recent changes does fairly pitiful damage. It may still see niche useage, but with the great range the cerb has with HAM's, it probably won't be seen often. I would call this a good change.

-continued-
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#824 - 2013-07-19 18:08:00 UTC
-continued-

Eagle:
The eagle looses a high for a mid, gets a decent amount more powergrid, but does loose a smidge of CPU, gains a nice amount of shield, and a smidge of speed. The eagle has two viable fits, a railgun fit and a blaster fit.

For the blaster fit, it already had plenty of spare CPU. It has nice range but the dps isn't particularly spectacular. These changes will give this fit a bit more tank, but nothing spectacular. It has less dps and ehp than any brawling BC, but it does at least have more manuverability. The changes here won't really change the viability of the blaster eagle much, but it does give it a small bonus.

For the railgun fit, it gets a bit more EHP and some much needed pwergrid, but these changes don't really affect its viability all that much. However, the changes to medium railguns give it a massive boost, giving it a 35% boost to its dps. Since it can hit out to 40km using antimatter without any range mods, and now can potentially do so with near 500dps, this might actually be the change it needs to become viable.

Overall, I would want the eagle to get a bit more speed. Aside from that, these balance changes at least make it potentially viable.

Deimos:
At the moment, there is a reason why the deimos is called the diemost. It basically has no role at all that doesn't get it killed, or that can't be done much more viably by other ships for cheaper.

These changes would swap a utility high for a mid, give it a smidge of powergrid, a smidge of cap, and some shield in exchange for massive nerfs to its armor and hull. The extra mid may allow the deimos to be able to run a shield buffer.

So we have the shield blaster fit, which is fast, but squishy. With null loaded, it can effectively hit out to point range. However, it will be completely incapable of moving in to brawling range with anything. Looking at the armor blaster fit, it doesn't have the cap to run armor reps, or the powergrid to support that. Running a buffer fit, it doesn't do anything that a brutix can't do better, and it doesn't have the buffer to survive trying to get into range. So if you want to run blasters, the only fit you are really going to see is the shield null kite fit.

Moving on to railguns, the boost to medium railguns will potentially make the ahac deimos viable. Using 2 magstabs, it will be able to break 500dps at 22+34 with faction antimatter. It will be lacking a bit in tank compared to the zelot, but it is at least viable. Finishing up with the shield railgun deimos, with the buff to medium railguns this could potentially be the best version of this ship. You can fit it with MWD, 2 extenders and point, with 2 magstabs, 2 TE, and 2 nano's, and have over 500 gun dps with javelin or antimatter with decent tracking in point range. And of course, you would be able to hit hard at longer ranges as well just by swapping ammo out.

Overall, it would be nice if the deimos could get some more CPU, and it still isn't really a viable blaster ship. However, the changes to medium railguns may make it potentially viable there.

Ishtar:
Right now, the ishtar is just plain bad. It has the lowest CPU of any cruiser in the game, with the only exceptions being the augoror and the exequror - both of which are T1 armor logi cruisers. It also suffers from pathetic powergrid, again, the lowest of any HAC. Lastly, right now, drones suck. The UI is horrible and clunky, heavy drones are fairly useless, and the only type of drone that is used much are sentries, because then you don't have to worry about travel time. However, the ishtar is a HAC, and it has to remain mobile, which doesn't work well with how sentries are stationary.

With the proposed changes, the ishtar gets teh bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from the dominix. This basically gives it the exact same T1 bonuses as the domi. The HAC bonuses though are unimpressive. You get a bonus to control range, which is ok, but matched by a single 55CPU highslot mod. The bonus to drone bay amount is also uninspiring, on the same level as the cap usage bonuses that have been getting phased out on the amarr line. That being said, because of how the ship is designed, it has to have that drone bay, because there is no other way that this ship is accomplishing anything.

Overall, this is a buff to the ishtar. However, I do not feel that it is a buff that would get it to see any more use. The ship is too uninspiring in all other ways for that to happen.

Vagabond:
It swaps the speed bonus to a shield boost amount, and the speed bonus gets built in to the ship. The vaga however had already had its space, and didn't really need much of a buff. The shield boost bonus will help it a little bit, and the role bonus will also help it a lot. Overall, the changes here are just fine.

-continued-
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#825 - 2013-07-19 18:10:12 UTC
Vaga is silly.. Its a shield ship with five lows and four mids (Clearly designed around the XLASB fits)


Also why is the Vaga allowed to be so fast? I get that it used to be a part of its bonus but now it basically has five bonuses.. It goes 700 m/s faster then a cerb... SEVEN HUNDRED.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#826 - 2013-07-19 18:13:41 UTC
Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.

Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#827 - 2013-07-19 18:14:06 UTC
-continued-

Muninn:
Right now, the only real use for the muninn is the arty with 2 shield extenders. The proposed changes would swap a high for a low, and the rest of the changes are pretty insignificant.

Ignoring everything else, it seems that getting a 6th low would allow the muninn to armor tank, and be an armor brawler. However, it won't have the EHP to actually be a brawler, and it is hampered by having poor kinetic/explosive armor resists. Theoretically, it could fit into AHAC gangs, and with the change it could match the deimos's EHP, but doing so it would max at over 100 less dps at range with arty fitted. So you have less dps than the deimos, less EHP than the zelot, and a poor resist profile.

Shield wise, nothing will really change, though the MWD+extender fits will be a little bit more surviable with the role bonus. However, the best change that would boost this would be to take the highslot and put it in as a mid instead of a low. Doing that would give it a firm role that it would take, instead of trying to halfass it into an armor lineup.

Overall, I would call these changes a minor boost to the muninn, but not really enough to make it viable.

To conclude, the caldari ships are actually benefiting from these changes, and the deimos may actually see some usage. For the rest of the changes, the ships are still too uninspiring compared to other options available. The HAC line has been needing a buff for years to give it a role that hasn't been thoroughly stomped all over by the BC's. The changes proposed here leave us with the zelot shoehorned into the AHAC role, the cerb potentially becoming a viable HAM ship, the vagabond still having its niche, and the muninn maintaining its role as a maneuverable shield midrange sniper. The deimos may have been buffed into viability, and same with the eagle. But the ishtar and the sac will both remain useless.

Good first attempt at balancing, but I recommend you go back and decide what role HAC's are actually supposed to fit into, and then try to actually put them there, instead of trying to slip them into the tiny gap between T1 cruisers and T1 BC's.

-Arazel
Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#828 - 2013-07-19 18:17:24 UTC
Going to quote myself for a moment, then jump on the bandwagon
Phoenix Jones wrote:
You know what, just add a slot to every ship and don't change the powergrid/cpu of them at all, and let the people try to balance it out. The HAC creators managed to overslot the ships, but could not get them to produce any extra powergrid or cpu to cover the overslotting, allowing for creative endeavors to be done with them.

Change the Role Bonus to 10% hit points (shield,armor and hull) and 4% resistances (shield and armor). People will either try to overtank it, or just decide that it has enough health, lets add speed rigs, damage rigs, etc). (this is flat, not per level)


Zealot. Extra High, Utility Slot
Sacrelige. Extra low (no extra cpu or powergrid)


Deimos. Extra low (damn thing needs to get in range, in addition if they want to rail fit it, they can and give it enough speed to do it)
Ishtar. Extra Mid (the CPU and Powergrid would have to be checked on this ship, as it is SO tight)


Eagle. Extra Mid (Yep 7 mids, no extra cpu/powergrid).
Cereberus (Extra Low) (can nano or overdrive the ship, giving it its needed speed, or heck if your crazy armor tank the damn thing)


Vagabond. Extra Mid (yep 6/5/5) (no extra grid/cpu)
Muninn. Extra Mid (6/4/6).


Absolutely no thought of balance, reasoning for why the slot allotment was selected, or any type of care of your feelings were taken into account for the above proposal.


Everybody is basically asking for this. We want the ships to be worth 150 million isk, but they aren't much different from the 10 million isk version. Instead of trying to finagle a reason why, or chopping ship cost, just add a extra slot to them. The value of the spare slot increases the usefulness of the ship, but the restrictiveness of the grid and CPU really hampers the " omg wtf pwn" fits. I'm sure someone could fit the ships above and make them awesome. Good, let them put a 100 mil isk plate on the ship to meet grid, that's the concious choice. The above gives the ships fitter a choice on what to do with the ships, while making the ships more unique and useful, but not overbearing the t1 versions because they still have to work within the grid.



Yaay!!!!

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#829 - 2013-07-19 18:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Vaga is silly.. Its a shield ship with five lows and four mids (Clearly designed around the XLASB fits)


Also why is the Vaga allowed to be so fast? I get that it used to be a part of its bonus but now it basically has five bonuses.. It goes 700 m/s faster then a cerb... SEVEN HUNDRED.



Because as a specialized ship there's no reason why Cynabal is faster and agile, one or the other but not both and believe me I don't want to see Faction cruisers loose their tràlàlà because they're so awesome to fly it would be bad for the game to break them down to oblivion.

However I don't care Vaga being the fastest ship in the game, at all. This is exactly what this ship should be about, 5mids 4 lows 5 Turrets and zip zap all around, however to achieve this over the Cynabal and as all T2 cruisers are in desperate need a third rig slot is mandatory, not an option but simply mandatory and Cynabal must get a nef to agility after this but not keep and the speed and the interceptor agility.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#830 - 2013-07-19 18:22:09 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.

Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense.
Have all my likes.

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#831 - 2013-07-19 18:23:56 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.

Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense.
Have all my likes.



Good idea indeed.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#832 - 2013-07-19 18:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
for the deimos to get more viability out of blasters i think it needs a stronger falloff bonus or a second falloff bonus and more tank.

DEIMOS - Like the Thorax, Deimos now has 4 mids and gives up the extra high. It also goes faster and aligns faster.

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
5% increase to MicroWarpdrive capacitor bonus

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
10% Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 6H, 4M(+1), 6L; 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 1230 PWG(+240), 380 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1550(+390) / 2200(+160) / 2000(-531)
Capacitor (amount) : 1500(+125)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 230(+22) / .475(-.055) / 11460000 / 7.54s(-.875)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 270 / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 110

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#833 - 2013-07-19 18:30:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I still think a fleet of aBC will dumpster the **** out of a fleet of the current and even newly proposed HACs. For a fraction of the cost too.

CCP Rise - If the MWD bloob sig role bonus is necessary enough to warrent then perhaps you should just reduce the sig of the HACs base down from the start. Then you can look into giving each HAC unique role bonuses that can open the door to make them not just 'better' T1 cruisers, but good at doing 'something'. Something that an aBC can't do and a T1 cruiser can't do.


the only problem i see in reducing base sig radius is ahacs are already viable... you dont want to make them op.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#834 - 2013-07-19 18:30:57 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Ishtar:
Right now, the ishtar is just plain bad. It has the lowest CPU of any cruiser in the game, with the only exceptions being the augoror and the exequror - both of which are T1 armor logi cruisers. It also suffers from pathetic powergrid, again, the lowest of any HAC. Lastly, right now, drones suck. The UI is horrible and clunky, heavy drones are fairly useless, and the only type of drone that is used much are sentries, because then you don't have to worry about travel time. However, the ishtar is a HAC, and it has to remain mobile, which doesn't work well with how sentries are stationary.

With the proposed changes, the ishtar gets teh bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from the dominix. This basically gives it the exact same T1 bonuses as the domi. The HAC bonuses though are unimpressive. You get a bonus to control range, which is ok, but matched by a single 55CPU highslot mod. The bonus to drone bay amount is also uninspiring, on the same level as the cap usage bonuses that have been getting phased out on the amarr line. That being said, because of how the ship is designed, it has to have that drone bay, because there is no other way that this ship is accomplishing anything.
It would have been really neat to see the standard "+10% Drone Hitpoints and Damage per level" bonus changed during the tiericide initiative and varied the bonuses on some of these ships. For example, the Ishtar should have had that ridiculous +50 m3 drone bay/level changed to the Nexor's +5% Drone Speed/lvl. Then, the ship would have been viable as *the* drone ship. It would have bonuses supporting lights, meds and heavies, in addition to sentry-themed bonuses of tracking/optimal and drone control range.

Then, you separate the Nexor out as +12.5%/lvl Drone damage and 10% Drone hp/lvl and only give it 50 mb/s. It'd be a specialty boat tailored to medium and lights.

* * *

And just sort of an OT comment, can someone please explain the -1 slot per ship for drone ships? The part I don't understand is that if I choose to use ewar drones--which is the reason I've heard the most for the lack of a slot--then I don't get to do damage. So, THAT IS THE TRADEOFF. NO DAMAGE at all! If anything, it would seem that ships that have "regular" weapon bonuses AND have a drone bay ought to be the ones with the -1 slot, since they DON'T have to trade their damage for ewar. They get to use ewar drones as effectively and still put out their full damage. Why is it the other way around?? It sounds just like an old mindset or way of thinking, or something that is "because that is the way it has been done."

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#835 - 2013-07-19 18:32:50 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.

Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense.
Actually, if we're going down this route, can we make the role bonus "Able to fit MJD"??? It always made much more sense that smaller, brawly ships would use MJDs to close the gap and brawl.

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Grath Telkin
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#836 - 2013-07-19 18:33:01 UTC
None of your(player) silly ideas justify the 15x price tag over t1 cruisers or the 3-4x the price tag of ABC's.


You can modify these things all you want in a 1000 different ways, unless you jack the power WAY up, or drop the price WAY down, nobody will fly them simply because the cheaper options do as much or almost as much for a fraction of the cost.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#837 - 2013-07-19 18:35:08 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
[

Its implied since they used the brawler Diemost to compare rather than the sniper Eagle.





Implication in this case come smuch more from your mind than anything else.

I coudl state that the reason he decided to use this ship was because the Talos is also gallente. And my assertion would have the same level of assurance or insanity as yours.


Eagle and Diemost both use hybrids, Talos uses hybrids, if they wanted to compare a sniper ship to a Talos they could have used the Eagle and made more sense.

Also I recall someone saying the Diemost was to be a sniper, which I found ridiculous...



Surely you are joking... your line of tough is even weaker than the one that CCP used to explain why Incarna was a wonderful expansion!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#838 - 2013-07-19 18:38:45 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.

Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense.



I will like this as well, that would make game play alot more interesting.


Here are my thoughts.

Deimost : will still Never Be flown, it needs to either have a little more of everything including tank "in your face brawler" or it should be re-designed all together

Ishtar: is good as always... could use a bit more CPU after running tests in EFT

Cerberus: is better
it would be nice to see a close range brwaler missle boat for caldari
Raven is long range
Rohk is long range
drake is meduim range
Cerb is long range
Eagle is long range
naga is long range

It would be nice to have a caldari ship that got some better damage mods and was made to be an in your face brawler.


Eagle is nice for what it does


Sacrilge still wont be flown by many. The CAP Bonus should be built into the ship and you should give the ship an other missle bonus. cause there is not point buying a Sac when you could buy a drake or a cerberus.

Zealot is ok as is, maybe a few tweks could be done


Vaga is now a monster, its gunna make solo PvP very interesting

Munin though has gotten better still could take more looking at. still dont see why people would fly it over alot of the other HACs


MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#839 - 2013-07-19 18:38:52 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
[

Its implied since they used the brawler Diemost to compare rather than the sniper Eagle.





Implication in this case come smuch more from your mind than anything else.

I coudl state that the reason he decided to use this ship was because the Talos is also gallente. And my assertion would have the same level of assurance or insanity as yours.


Eagle and Diemost both use hybrids, Talos uses hybrids, if they wanted to compare a sniper ship to a Talos they could have used the Eagle and made more sense.

Also I recall someone saying the Diemost was to be a sniper, which I found ridiculous...


if the deimos had a tracking bonus then javelin with 250's and some te's would be nice. that could be the ahac setup for the ship.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#840 - 2013-07-19 18:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Grath Telkin wrote:
None of your(player) silly ideas justify the 15x price tag over t1 cruisers or the 3-4x the price tag of ABC's.


You can modify these things all you want in a 1000 different ways, unless you jack the power WAY up, or drop the price WAY down, nobody will fly them simply because the cheaper options do as much or almost as much for a fraction of the cost.



this is agreed, another reason why if the nerf T3s after buffing the Hacs, people will just stop flying T3s all together

price differences between ships and classes need to be justified and maybe even greater.

make the gap price gap as well as the power gab between ships justifiable