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Star Citizen v EVE

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digitalwanderer
DW inc
#901 - 2014-02-04 18:26:27 UTC
DaReaper wrote:



ah so more then one server... yea then i'm prolly not gonna go beyond trying it. but that's just me



More like creating your own server and CIG also releasing tools( they already have money for it), to create your own mods or add content to the game if you so wish, and if the latter is good enough it can actually be integrated into the original game.


This is what can kill eve right here, since we're dependent on them releasing content for every user, no matter if they're just starting, 5 years into eve or there since the start of the game in 2003 and many of the old ones have left out of sheer boredom since they have nothing left to aim for....Here's an example:



Tech 3 ships wich CCP only released cruisers so far and that was about 3 years ago....Can someone tell me why the hell is it taking so long to see other classes of tech 3 ships after this long?.....Patience has limits you know.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#902 - 2014-02-04 21:51:07 UTC
Given Roberts is rather famous for not holding up to his promises (Freelancer!) I doubt asking him would produce anything but a vague response meant to satisfy curiosity.

And yes, the issue is with EVE that players cannot opt out of PvP even if they want to. They may want to hit-and-run, hurt someone then run to safety but the only way to remain truly safe is to never undock. Or just never log in, you can be scammed without undocking.

One thing CR doesn't seem to realize is that players are likely not to play by his rules. If he creates a system of "suspect flagging" that will hurt the attacker, people will bait clueless "citizens" into engaging in combat and condemning them to being targets.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#903 - 2014-02-04 23:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Ok I didn't find a specific forum post or video from the developers about how will the PVP slider work when you're a criminal with a bounty on your head, but I found some posts from the community manager Ben Lesnick and other info that we can put together to draw some conclusions:


- Crime Status

The crime status depends on the balance between law enforcement and law violation in a system. The crime status of a star system is judged by the United Empire of Earth[source?] and indicates how dangerous is the respective system for a lawful citizen. Star systems with low crime status are generally considered a safe place to fly, high crime systems are dangerous, and medium is something in between.


- "PVP Slider" or "Player Interaction Slider" (seems to be the official name for it)

The “Player interaction slider” (or “PvP slider” as some calls it) is an option that will allow players to influence wether they encounter humans (PVP) or computer controlled ships (PVE) during certains events.

So here’s what we actually know, with CIG-employee sources.

Setting the Player interaction to minimum will lower your chances of player encounter, but does NOT set those chances to zero. (Ben Lesnick, march 2013)

The slider may only be changed on a save point (while landed on a planet/station), not mid-flight (Ben L., january 2013)

Each system/zone has a danger rating which affects the chances of encountering players in events. The more risky the zone, the more likely to encounter players. (Ben L., march 2013)

If the event manager chooses to not match you up against players, the event still happens and you will encounter ships manned by AI instead. (Ben L., march 2013)


- posts from Ben Lesnick answering questions about the PVP Slider

Yes, the system rating will impact the chance of having PVP there.

Let's say I'm traveling to Nav Point 1 in a system that's entirely safe, so there's no modifier. I have my PVP slider turned all the way down. I want to play this like an offline game!

And then Chris Roberts is flying a course that would intersect me and he has his slider turned all the way up because he's looking for a fight.

So we meet at an action sphere on the way to Nav Point 1 and the computer rolls some dice to determine how the encounter works. It takes into account that I don't want PVP and so weighs the chances AGAINST a PVP battle ensuing.

So let's say that means one in ten means a PVP battle when your slider is all the way down (not final numbers, just made up for this.) There's a 1 in 10 chance that I have to fight Chris Roberts right then and there.

But either way, I'm going to fight SOMEONE and so is Chris... but if it's not each other, we'll each have a separate instance where we fight an AI ship and it'll behave as though we both had a random encounter in Privateer (and neither of us knows the other is there.)

Think of it as a spectrum... the further you get from Earth/Terra the less effective it will be. Making up numbers entirely, imagine a full slider being 90% effective on Earth going down to 10% effective in Vanduul space.

The idea will be that there's a risk-reward factor in terms of the economy... you're going to be making less money on sales when your slider is all the way down. So you'll have to fly non-PVP-possible missions to make the same amount of money people who are allowing it get in fewer.


Considering what's written there I think it's safe to say that if you are a criminal being hunted in a system with no or low crime, your chances of being engaged by bounty hunters or other citizens instead of AI security forces will be lower than if you were in a medium or high crime system (assuming you are trying to evade everyone with your PVP slider all the way down to PVE only).

Here's a Chris Roberts interview for you too on becoming a Space Crime Lord in Star Citizen http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/26/roberts-on-star-citizen-becoming-a-space-crime-lord/
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#904 - 2014-02-04 23:59:11 UTC
^ Nice info

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#905 - 2014-02-05 10:40:59 UTC
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13550-Letter-From-The-Chairman-38-Million

$38 million stretch goal reached, Star Citizens unlocked the next choice from the star system poll, Cano System, home to a fully aquatic planet:

Cano System is home to a G-Type Main Sequence Star that’s almost identical to Earth’s. Of the four planets in the system, only one is inhabited: Carteyna. Located on the edge of habitable zone, Carteyna is a classic waterworld. Fortunately, its planetary axis constantly keeps the northern hemisphere away from the sun, which allowed for the water to freeze into the landmasses used as the initial landing zones in 2587. Multiple attempts have been made to try to convert the thick atmosphere into something breathable, but the process never seemed to stick. In fact, over the years, every time there’s a new technological development in geo-engineering, they test it out here on Carteyna only to yield the same result. Almost fifty years ago, scientists discovered microscopic organisms in the very early phases of life in the depths of the oceans. This caused a massive uproar throughout the UEE at the prospect that they had been attempting to terraform a developing world. Carteyna was immediately placed under the Fair Chance Act. Unfortunately, Humans had been living here for almost over three hundred years and the families that had been here for generations felt that they had earned rights as residents. After years of debate in the political and scientific community, the population was allowed to stay, but only under certain conditions: future terraforming attempts have been outlawed and the Human population has been consolidated to a single arcology to minimize their impact on their environment and the development of whatever species is growing in the deep.

The $39 million mark will unlock the last 2 most voted options in the poll, Kabal System and Oretani System, and a new goal will be announced that will help chart the course for the future of Star Citizen in a different way.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#906 - 2014-02-05 13:18:34 UTC
Yeaaah, this will sooo work well. I guess we'll have to see, but something tells me this system will either run piracy into the ground or be amusingly exploited.

Also, I love how they made it past selling non-existent spaceships into selling non-existent starsystems. Classy, I was wondering which way CR will go to milk more money from people.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#907 - 2014-02-05 14:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Trii Seo wrote:
Yeaaah, this will sooo work well. I guess we'll have to see, but something tells me this system will either run piracy into the ground or be amusingly exploited.
Read my last post again, you will understand better the parameters in which piracy and other player interactions will occur in the Star Citizen PU.

Trii Seo wrote:
Also, I love how they made it past selling non-existent spaceships into selling non-existent starsystems. Classy, I was wondering which way CR will go to milk more money from people.
They're not selling anything, they're collecting donations to gather as much as they can to make the best game possible. The ships, systems and the other stretch goal unlocks are nothing but symbolic rewards. Unlike you, the people who keep pouring money into the site understand this, and trust in CR and the team.

Trii Seo wrote:
I haz consprcy thery
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#908 - 2014-02-05 17:16:13 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Ok I didn't find a specific forum post or video from the developers about how will the PVP slider work when you're a criminal with a bounty on your head, but I found some posts from the community manager Ben Lesnick and other info that we can put together to draw some conclusions:


- Crime Status

The crime status depends on the balance between law enforcement and law violation in a system. The crime status of a star system is judged by the United Empire of Earth[source?] and indicates how dangerous is the respective system for a lawful citizen. Star systems with low crime status are generally considered a safe place to fly, high crime systems are dangerous, and medium is something in between.


- "PVP Slider" or "Player Interaction Slider" (seems to be the official name for it)

The “Player interaction slider” (or “PvP slider” as some calls it) is an option that will allow players to influence wether they encounter humans (PVP) or computer controlled ships (PVE) during certains events.

So here’s what we actually know, with CIG-employee sources.

Setting the Player interaction to minimum will lower your chances of player encounter, but does NOT set those chances to zero. (Ben Lesnick, march 2013)

The slider may only be changed on a save point (while landed on a planet/station), not mid-flight (Ben L., january 2013)

Each system/zone has a danger rating which affects the chances of encountering players in events. The more risky the zone, the more likely to encounter players. (Ben L., march 2013)

If the event manager chooses to not match you up against players, the event still happens and you will encounter ships manned by AI instead. (Ben L., march 2013)


- posts from Ben Lesnick answering questions about the PVP Slider

Yes, the system rating will impact the chance of having PVP there.

Let's say I'm traveling to Nav Point 1 in a system that's entirely safe, so there's no modifier. I have my PVP slider turned all the way down. I want to play this like an offline game!

And then Chris Roberts is flying a course that would intersect me and he has his slider turned all the way up because he's looking for a fight.

So we meet at an action sphere on the way to Nav Point 1 and the computer rolls some dice to determine how the encounter works. It takes into account that I don't want PVP and so weighs the chances AGAINST a PVP battle ensuing.

So let's say that means one in ten means a PVP battle when your slider is all the way down (not final numbers, just made up for this.) There's a 1 in 10 chance that I have to fight Chris Roberts right then and there.

But either way, I'm going to fight SOMEONE and so is Chris... but if it's not each other, we'll each have a separate instance where we fight an AI ship and it'll behave as though we both had a random encounter in Privateer (and neither of us knows the other is there.)

Think of it as a spectrum... the further you get from Earth/Terra the less effective it will be. Making up numbers entirely, imagine a full slider being 90% effective on Earth going down to 10% effective in Vanduul space.

The idea will be that there's a risk-reward factor in terms of the economy... you're going to be making less money on sales when your slider is all the way down. So you'll have to fly non-PVP-possible missions to make the same amount of money people who are allowing it get in fewer.


Considering what's written there I think it's safe to say that if you are a criminal being hunted in a system with no or low crime, your chances of being engaged by bounty hunters or other citizens instead of AI security forces will be lower than if you were in a medium or high crime system (assuming you are trying to evade everyone with your PVP slider all the way down to PVE only).

Here's a Chris Roberts interview for you too on becoming a Space Crime Lord in Star Citizen http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/26/roberts-on-star-citizen-becoming-a-space-crime-lord/


Scratches his head. This sounds cumbersome, and stupid. And the more I am looking at it, the more I am realizing that though it might be flashy and pretty, it sounds pretty much like a wanna be sandbox, that's not really one. The facts of sharded (more then one server), cumbersome sounding pvp and death mechanic (though I like the idea of perma death, but it still sounds way too complex and cumbersome) lack of a level or skill system (though that's kinda plus too, I hate run around kill stuff with sticks lvl up.. ooo now I get sword games) just means as I said I prolly will just poke my head in and look. But I am smelling possible failure once the masses play it. Though I have been wrong before, so we will see. Just looks like a giant scam to me atm.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#909 - 2014-02-05 17:17:40 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
DaReaper wrote:



ah so more then one server... yea then i'm prolly not gonna go beyond trying it. but that's just me



More like creating your own server and CIG also releasing tools( they already have money for it), to create your own mods or add content to the game if you so wish, and if the latter is good enough it can actually be integrated into the original game.


This is what can kill eve right here, since we're dependent on them releasing content for every user, no matter if they're just starting, 5 years into eve or there since the start of the game in 2003 and many of the old ones have left out of sheer boredom since they have nothing left to aim for....Here's an example:



Tech 3 ships wich CCP only released cruisers so far and that was about 3 years ago....Can someone tell me why the hell is it taking so long to see other classes of tech 3 ships after this long?.....Patience has limits you know.


No, that doesn't really appeal to me. Modification could be fun sure, but again, different servers. Its one of the things I used to hate about mmo's.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#910 - 2014-02-05 17:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
DaReaper wrote:
Scratches his head. This sounds cumbersome, and stupid. And the more I am looking at it, the more I am realizing that though it might be flashy and pretty, it sounds pretty much like a wanna be sandbox, that's not really one. The facts of sharded (more then one server), cumbersome sounding pvp and death mechanic (though I like the idea of perma death, but it still sounds way too complex and cumbersome) lack of a level or skill system (though that's kinda plus too, I hate run around kill stuff with sticks lvl up.. ooo now I get sword games) just means as I said I prolly will just poke my head in and look. But I am smelling possible failure once the masses play it. Though I have been wrong before, so we will see. Just looks like a giant scam to me atm.


Might wanna use a tinfoil hat while browsing the spreadsheets and pressing F1. Consprcy theries are known to cause head itch. Oh yes and I like cucumber too, diced and shuffled in a nice mediterranean salad.
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#911 - 2014-02-05 17:31:31 UTC
SC can't be housed in one server. It's technologically impossible because of the high fidelity graphics. But all the player's data will be. I don't know how that will work. I trust Roberts to keep a promise wayyy more than CCP.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#912 - 2014-02-05 18:51:38 UTC
DaReaper wrote:


No, that doesn't really appeal to me. Modification could be fun sure, but again, different servers. Its one of the things I used to hate about mmo's.



The basic idea with the different servers is mostly to do with lag issues since there will be an official server in at least 3 continents, so that's it's easier to get a low latency connection to an official server, something wich many here have exeperienced over the years is not the case with EVE every now and then...P



The modding kicks in not just to create your own ships or specific rules, but taken to the extreme, even entire universes....Think star wars mod, babylon 5 mod, star trek mod, firefly mod.....List goes on and on really.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#913 - 2014-02-05 21:00:58 UTC
Cypherdog wrote:
I trust Roberts to keep a promise wayyy more than CCP.



Man.... Every time I hear/see people say the above, I get more and more worried about the future of humanity.

Maybe I'm a dying breed, but I don't trust anyone..... You want my money, show me the product. No product, then I don't have any money and GTFO because you're wasting my time with cheap promises.

I give CCP some money only because they provide a product I use.

Not a knock bro, Just saying. Time is money and trust is priceless. Don't just give it away without putting something real in your pocket first.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#914 - 2014-02-05 23:43:32 UTC
Yea the more I learn about this game, the more I am seeing failure.

Multiple servers, yet all the data will be housed on one... so like something I do on sever alpha will effect server beta.... but I can't shoot or play with the people in beta... huh?

the pvp slider will take into account that I don't want pvp but billy bob does, and the game will roll a dice to see if we interact... WHAT!?! So if I go to plant x, and billy bob goes to planet x looking for a fight, if I have my slider set to 0 and he has his at 10 (max pvp) the server will check to see if I see him or not. and if I win then I see npc's and not him... again.. what? Take that X20 in a 20 ma fleet roaming for targets and if it has to do that for each pilot... I smell lag

So if I blow up, my escape pod gets tractored.. by the bad guy? and then i'm taken to a medical facility... by the guy trying to kill me? no? then what I have to sit and chill till a nice dude cmes alone and takes me? no the planet does... then that means I will always be near a planet when I interact with stuff.... ok.... so now if I am healed enogh times my body degreades and then I 'die' and all mys stuff goes to my next of kin... *blinks* why the hell would my body gegrade in a future world where I would be healed? Healing means no degrading. Granted I could accept if maybe on my way to my pod as my ship was blowing up I got a piece of shrapnel that ripped my arm off, so now I need a cybernetic arm... but degrade?!?

The more I hear about this game, the more my brain just goes 'wait what?' maybe I am jaded by 10 years of eve, which has in my opionion logical game play. And the game is not suppose to charge monthly fee's... so that sounds like.. I buy a $10 ship, when that gets blown up, I need to buy another $10 ship....

yea.. I need to look more into this but... really this game sounds like a polished pile of junk. But hey, one mans garbage....

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#915 - 2014-02-05 23:45:43 UTC
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
Cypherdog wrote:
I trust Roberts to keep a promise wayyy more than CCP.



Man.... Every time I hear/see people say the above, I get more and more worried about the future of humanity.

Maybe I'm a dying breed, but I don't trust anyone..... You want my money, show me the product. No product, then I don't have any money and GTFO because you're wasting my time with cheap promises.

I give CCP some money only because they provide a product I use.

Not a knock bro, Just saying. Time is money and trust is priceless. Don't just give it away without putting something real in your pocket first.



Right, if he is so good, why does he need kick starter money? why can't he get his own other ways, like you know, real investors. And if he wants money.. then put out something that playable then ask for money. like oh idk, a prototype of the game. Gods I smell scam.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Colonel Selene
Kesukka
#916 - 2014-02-06 00:09:41 UTC
Oh wow this thread is still going on?

I'm still shocked at how much people are spending on ships for a game that is not even released.

Grrr.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#917 - 2014-02-06 00:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
DaReaper wrote:
Yea the more I learn about this game, the more I am seeing failure.

Multiple servers, yet all the data will be housed on one... so like something I do on sever alpha will effect server beta.... but I can't shoot or play with the people in beta... huh?

the pvp slider will take into account that I don't want pvp but billy bob does, and the game will roll a dice to see if we interact... WHAT!?! So if I go to plant x, and billy bob goes to planet x looking for a fight, if I have my slider set to 0 and he has his at 10 (max pvp) the server will check to see if I see him or not. and if I win then I see npc's and not him... again.. what? Take that X20 in a 20 ma fleet roaming for targets and if it has to do that for each pilot... I smell lag

So if I blow up, my escape pod gets tractored.. by the bad guy? and then i'm taken to a medical facility... by the guy trying to kill me? no? then what I have to sit and chill till a nice dude cmes alone and takes me? no the planet does... then that means I will always be near a planet when I interact with stuff.... ok.... so now if I am healed enogh times my body degreades and then I 'die' and all mys stuff goes to my next of kin... *blinks* why the hell would my body gegrade in a future world where I would be healed? Healing means no degrading. Granted I could accept if maybe on my way to my pod as my ship was blowing up I got a piece of shrapnel that ripped my arm off, so now I need a cybernetic arm... but degrade?!?

The more I hear about this game, the more my brain just goes 'wait what?' maybe I am jaded by 10 years of eve, which has in my opionion logical game play. And the game is not suppose to charge monthly fee's... so that sounds like.. I buy a $10 ship, when that gets blown up, I need to buy another $10 ship....

yea.. I need to look more into this but... really this game sounds like a polished pile of junk. But hey, one mans garbage....


The more I read your posts, the more I think you must be mentally challenged.
Shelby Dusette
Division 13
#918 - 2014-02-06 00:47:56 UTC
Will definitely check this game out.

Once it's completed. Blink

Until then I'm enjoying EVE way to much to invest in an unfinished product that I can't truly trial yet.

ѕнєℓву

ㅤ

ѕσ мσιѕт ♥ ѕυcн вяανє ♥ мany lєgισи ♥ wow
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#919 - 2014-02-06 01:06:18 UTC
Shelby Dusette wrote:
Will definitely check this game out.

Once it's completed. Blink

Until then I'm enjoying EVE way to much to invest in an unfinished product that I can't truly trial yet.


If everybody adopted the same posture you wouldn't be checking it out at all because it wouldn't be developed, much less completed. C-R-O-W-D-F-U-N-D-I-N-G
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#920 - 2014-02-06 01:26:02 UTC
That's the gamble they're taking with crowdfunding. Not my problem.

I prefer S.P.O.N.S.O.R.S.H.I.P. A commercial entity to kick things off with their bank account and a very visible vote of confidence.

I invested in one other crowd funded game once, 7 years later we're still waiting for the game.

SC might turn out to be awesome. The concept is bold, the previews are impressive. I'll wait and see. Smile

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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