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Star Citizen v EVE

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Author
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#641 - 2013-11-08 23:45:36 UTC
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#642 - 2013-11-09 09:41:56 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


...in case that there is a pilot. Blink

Now seriously, most of the clicking comes because the systems have individual controls and are not linked together; it would be theoretically possible to have a big "start" function and still keep the clicking as a backup.

Standard operation does not necessarily need to share the same interface as emergency operation.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#643 - 2013-11-09 09:55:34 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


It already is happening. You should see the flight deck on some of the most recently upgraded military planes and on some of the stuff in development.
Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#644 - 2013-11-09 11:46:40 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


...in case that there is a pilot. Blink

Now seriously, most of the clicking comes because the systems have individual controls and are not linked together; it would be theoretically possible to have a big "start" function and still keep the clicking as a backup.

Standard operation does not necessarily need to share the same interface as emergency operation.


Sounds daft to have a spaceship that you can just push the start button and off you go! It makes more sense that when you get on your ship, the ship's computer (or AI) to begin start up procedures, have it running through diagnostics while the reactor and whatnot are coming online before you can launch. If it is a war vessel you are flying, there would be a constant combat readiness that would allow you to skip certain steps.

I completely understand that there are people out there don't want that DCS A-10 experience in Star Citizen. But to have something as simplistic as "press the big green start button" is just as immersion breaking for me as having a door that never opened is for you.

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#645 - 2013-11-09 15:18:24 UTC
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


...in case that there is a pilot. Blink

Now seriously, most of the clicking comes because the systems have individual controls and are not linked together; it would be theoretically possible to have a big "start" function and still keep the clicking as a backup.

Standard operation does not necessarily need to share the same interface as emergency operation.


Sounds daft to have a spaceship that you can just push the start button and off you go! It makes more sense that when you get on your ship, the ship's computer (or AI) to begin start up procedures, have it running through diagnostics while the reactor and whatnot are coming online before you can launch. If it is a war vessel you are flying, there would be a constant combat readiness that would allow you to skip certain steps.

I completely understand that there are people out there don't want that DCS A-10 experience in Star Citizen. But to have something as simplistic as "press the big green start button" is just as immersion breaking for me as having a door that never opened is for you.


So you are at odds about EVE immersion, don't you?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#646 - 2013-11-09 16:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Commissar Kate
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


Modern fighters are inherently unstable. Instability leads to maneuverability. Without computer assistance, controlled level flight would be difficult and inefficient. The pilot basically tells the computer where to maneuver the aircraft and computer moves the control surfaces to the needed positions and compensates for any instabilities. Although this is for atmospheric flight and aerodynamics only, not spaceflight .

Spaceflight is whole different animal. At the very least, if there is true newtonian physics, a "kill rotation" button will be needed. Rotation can get out of hand quickly if you're not careful.

/rant off
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#647 - 2013-11-09 16:19:15 UTC
Whole "immersive XXIX century flight simulator" discussion in Star Citizen is archaic mess for pre-puberty children - just like elves, dwarfs and medieval roleplay events with stupid blunt weapons: not only auto-piloting drones are already better than human-piloted planes but cars also will be replaced with auto-piloting variants in the next decade (present Google auto-pilots are like 99% more safe than professional human drivers).

I'm waiting for a game where AI could learn my preferences, reaction time - and then take control over game so I could just watch it (and take control if I feel like it). Best gameplay ever \o/
Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#648 - 2013-11-09 17:05:14 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


...in case that there is a pilot. Blink

Now seriously, most of the clicking comes because the systems have individual controls and are not linked together; it would be theoretically possible to have a big "start" function and still keep the clicking as a backup.

Standard operation does not necessarily need to share the same interface as emergency operation.


Sounds daft to have a spaceship that you can just push the start button and off you go! It makes more sense that when you get on your ship, the ship's computer (or AI) to begin start up procedures, have it running through diagnostics while the reactor and whatnot are coming online before you can launch. If it is a war vessel you are flying, there would be a constant combat readiness that would allow you to skip certain steps.

I completely understand that there are people out there don't want that DCS A-10 experience in Star Citizen. But to have something as simplistic as "press the big green start button" is just as immersion breaking for me as having a door that never opened is for you.


So you are at odds about EVE immersion, don't you?


Well, that wholly depends on what you define as immersion in EVE. Because unlike you, I don't feel like a terrible human being like you did after killing those miners (lol!) after I kill someone and unlike you, I don't care about avatar based stuff.

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#649 - 2013-11-09 17:14:21 UTC
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


...in case that there is a pilot. Blink

Now seriously, most of the clicking comes because the systems have individual controls and are not linked together; it would be theoretically possible to have a big "start" function and still keep the clicking as a backup.

Standard operation does not necessarily need to share the same interface as emergency operation.


Sounds daft to have a spaceship that you can just push the start button and off you go! It makes more sense that when you get on your ship, the ship's computer (or AI) to begin start up procedures, have it running through diagnostics while the reactor and whatnot are coming online before you can launch. If it is a war vessel you are flying, there would be a constant combat readiness that would allow you to skip certain steps.

I completely understand that there are people out there don't want that DCS A-10 experience in Star Citizen. But to have something as simplistic as "press the big green start button" is just as immersion breaking for me as having a door that never opened is for you.


So you are at odds about EVE immersion, don't you?


Well, that wholly depends on what you define as immersion in EVE. Because unlike you, I don't feel like a terrible human being like you did after killing those miners (lol!) after I kill someone and unlike you, I don't care about avatar based stuff.


You're at odds with reading comprehension too... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#650 - 2013-11-09 18:10:32 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


You're at odds with reading comprehension too... Roll


Well, I am currently running a fever and, as you can probably imagine, not feeling great. I would give a **** about what you had to say if you had anything to say in the first place.

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Inyria Karaiya
Lionel War Industries
Gooseflock Featheration
#651 - 2013-11-10 05:19:17 UTC
INPO I believe that he is trying too hard. That he is trying to be better than EVE from what I have read SS is extremely complicated and will not get very far. EVE is a balance between heavy physics and simplicity. EVE is a simulator SS is a RL shoved into a computer and called a game. I will never leave EVE.
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#652 - 2013-11-10 11:30:16 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


Modern fighters are inherently unstable. Instability leads to maneuverability. Without computer assistance, controlled level flight would be difficult and inefficient. The pilot basically tells the computer where to maneuver the aircraft and computer moves the control surfaces to the needed positions and compensates for any instabilities. Although this is for atmospheric flight and aerodynamics only, not spaceflight .

Spaceflight is whole different animal. At the very least, if there is true newtonian physics, a "kill rotation" button will be needed. Rotation can get out of hand quickly if you're not careful.

/rant off


I think that would be covered under fly-by-wire which would prevent uncontrolled rotation by correcting when the pilot stops their pitch or roll on the yoke. If it works the same as killing velocity in the demo of the prototype engine there will be a little 'lag' as the fbw puts the thrusters to work to correct orientation.
Tanesha Kring
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#653 - 2013-11-10 11:43:58 UTC
Inyria Karaiya wrote:
INPO I believe that he is trying too hard. That he is trying to be better than EVE from what I have read SS is extremely complicated and will not get very far. EVE is a balance between heavy physics and simplicity. EVE is a simulator SS is a RL shoved into a computer and called a game. I will never leave EVE.


What heavy physics? Eve is not a space simulator, it's a sandbox MMORPG with a space theme.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#654 - 2013-11-10 14:01:21 UTC
Tanesha Kring wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
that won't happen. the pilot needs full control of the systems for unexpected events.


Modern fighters are inherently unstable. Instability leads to maneuverability. Without computer assistance, controlled level flight would be difficult and inefficient. The pilot basically tells the computer where to maneuver the aircraft and computer moves the control surfaces to the needed positions and compensates for any instabilities. Although this is for atmospheric flight and aerodynamics only, not spaceflight .

Spaceflight is whole different animal. At the very least, if there is true newtonian physics, a "kill rotation" button will be needed. Rotation can get out of hand quickly if you're not careful.

/rant off


I think that would be covered under fly-by-wire which would prevent uncontrolled rotation by correcting when the pilot stops their pitch or roll on the yoke. If it works the same as killing velocity in the demo of the prototype engine there will be a little 'lag' as the fbw puts the thrusters to work to correct orientation.


The physics engine of SC was coded by Roberts himself and it simulates a FBW system which in turns simulates WW2 era dogfighting. The system is continuously firing micro-thrusts to keep the ships straight, but Roberts disabled the visualization of such microthrusts because it was ugly to see the thrusters flickering continuously even when the ship was "stopped".

Anyway, I would expect hardcore private servers enabling the effect back just for the sake of it, along with whatever modifcations are allowed via modding of the engine.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#655 - 2013-11-10 14:11:54 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The physics engine of SC was coded by Roberts himself and it simulates a FBW system which in turns simulates WW2 era dogfighting. The system is continuously firing micro-thrusts to keep the ships straight, but Roberts disabled the visualization of such microthrusts because it was ugly to see the thrusters flickering continuously even when the ship was "stopped".

Anyway, I would expect hardcore private servers enabling the effect back just for the sake of it, along with whatever modifcations are allowed via modding of the engine.


Hmmm If I intend to play SC I better get awesome with my dog fighting skills.

Guess I'll have to do more dogfights in DCS with my Su-27 Flanker. Lol
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#656 - 2013-11-10 14:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Commissar Kate wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The physics engine of SC was coded by Roberts himself and it simulates a FBW system which in turns simulates WW2 era dogfighting. The system is continuously firing micro-thrusts to keep the ships straight, but Roberts disabled the visualization of such microthrusts because it was ugly to see the thrusters flickering continuously even when the ship was "stopped".

Anyway, I would expect hardcore private servers enabling the effect back just for the sake of it, along with whatever modifcations are allowed via modding of the engine.


Hmmm If I intend to play SC I better get awesome with my dog fighting skills.

Guess I'll have to do more dogfights in DCS with my Su-27 Flanker. Lol


Dogfihgting without gravity nor aerodynamics could be a different beast than actual dogfighting... but most maneuvers still would be appliable, if even modified. With newtonian physics, a immelman could be a deadly maneuver by turning 180ยบ in the up section and then fire thruster to max... enemy overshoots and bye bye.

(Anyway, the dogfighting module is coming soon -actual soon, not CCP's Soon)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

David Kir
Hotbirds
#657 - 2013-11-10 21:35:16 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:


Hmmm If I intend to play SC I better get awesome with my dog fighting skills.

Guess I'll have to do more dogfights in DCS with my Su-27 Flanker. Lol


What is this DCS thing, and why am I not playing yet?

God dammit, I love the Su-27.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

David Kir
Hotbirds
#658 - 2013-11-10 21:37:48 UTC
I won't play it, because of space dogfighting.

I'm looking for a sci-fi experience, not for a ten year old boy's wet dream.
To each his own.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#659 - 2013-11-10 21:45:33 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:


Hmmm If I intend to play SC I better get awesome with my dog fighting skills.

Guess I'll have to do more dogfights in DCS with my Su-27 Flanker. Lol


What is this DCS thing, and why am I not playing yet?

God dammit, I love the Su-27.


http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

The Flaming Cliffs 3 module has the fighters.
Gothikia
#660 - 2013-11-12 21:25:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Anyone can make a lot of promises. Delivering on them is harder.


Heh, post of the year. Something CCP knows all too well.

<3 Gothie