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Star Citizen v EVE

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#501 - 2013-10-14 19:38:33 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
While I sincerely hope Star Citizen will be a success, I'm not that interested in it myself. It's crowdfunding I want, not this particular game.

There's already some promising M-rated RPG's in develpment that would never happen through publishers who want lame, toned-down games that can be sold to children for extra profit.

Anyway, star citizen... it's not a single shard universe so it doesn't really compare with EVE. It could still be an excellent game, it's just not going to have the same depth as EVE simply because there isn't a hundred other people buzzing around every corner.


You just described 99.9% of lowsec, 95% of nullsec and 50% of hisec. Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#502 - 2013-10-14 20:20:31 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
While I sincerely hope Star Citizen will be a success, I'm not that interested in it myself. It's crowdfunding I want, not this particular game.

There's already some promising M-rated RPG's in develpment that would never happen through publishers who want lame, toned-down games that can be sold to children for extra profit.

Anyway, star citizen... it's not a single shard universe so it doesn't really compare with EVE. It could still be an excellent game, it's just not going to have the same depth as EVE simply because there isn't a hundred other people buzzing around every corner.


You just described 99.9% of lowsec, 95% of nullsec and 50% of hisec. Lol


The part about a hundred people wasn't supposed to be taken literally.
There's always someone there to kill you, even in lowsec where it's relatively quiet.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#503 - 2013-10-16 09:25:16 UTC
Poll about content in Star Citizen resulted in 2/3 players voting for "exploration" as most attractive gameplay so SC devs focused on exploration + upcoming Elite is practically 100% pure unlimited exploration while in EVE exploration is the most frustrating and complicated mini-game one can imagine (I cannot tolerate scanning).

Same for avatar gameplay: besides sleeve tattoos and cyber arm as part of $150 package there is 0 new content for EVE while in SC I already got aquarium and buggy jumping track (and people didn't even ask for an aquarium).

3 months have passed since the beginning of this thread, some things changed: Star Citizen got alpha hangar module and 7 patches, CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing. CCP is going to give up all RPers / PvErs to Elite and SC without any struggle.

Prepare to see 75% discounts on PLEX - or price in billions.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#504 - 2013-10-16 10:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Lipbite wrote:
Poll about content in Star Citizen resulted in 2/3 players voting for "exploration" as most attractive gameplay so SC devs focused on exploration + upcoming Elite is practically 100% pure unlimited exploration while in EVE exploration is the most frustrating and complicated mini-game one can imagine (I cannot tolerate scanning).

Same for avatar gameplay: besides sleeve tattoos and cyber arm as part of $150 package there is 0 new content for EVE while in SC I already got aquarium and buggy jumping track (and people didn't even ask for an aquarium).

3 months have passed since the beginning of this thread, some things changed: Star Citizen got alpha hangar module and 7 patches, CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing. CCP is going to give up all RPers / PvErs to Elite and SC without any struggle.

Prepare to see 75% discounts on PLEX - or price in billions.


Probing in EVE is a mini-game and it is complicated? It used to be challenging back when it was first implemented, something that CCP has steadily chipped away at over the years and Odyssey that really put a nail in the coffin on whatever you can call complicated. So perhaps you are just impaired?

Sure, we got nothing related to playing with our toons and we don't have a aquarium. But we can undock in our shiny ships and play the actual game rather than run a "hangar module" to stand there and marvel at our purchases for real money, eagerly waiting...

EVE isn't competitive? Whaaaat?
I have yet to hear either Mr. Braben or Mr. Roberts touch on the subject of PvE, while it is something that we can expect, and color me pessimistic but I think it is too soon to celebrate whatever PVE content in these games as milestones compared to what we have in EVE today.

Prepare to see Chris Roberts trying to raise even more money. Preferably in the billions.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#505 - 2013-10-16 14:02:11 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
(...) CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing.

(...).


Do you know what's funny? The only ones who are worried about that, are the people who should be playing something else. As far as CCP, the CSM and EVE-lovers are concerned, it's OK that EVE locks itself in a niche half the size of what it is now by throwing everyone who doesn't fits into Chris Robert's and David Braben's arms.

Apparently averaging below 20,000 PCU is a desirable goal and we fringe hisec pve casual solo barbie lovers didn't notice. Question

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#506 - 2013-10-16 14:16:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
(...) CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing.

(...).


Do you know what's funny? The only ones who are worried about that, are the people who should be playing something else. As far as CCP, the CSM and EVE-lovers are concerned, it's OK that EVE locks itself in a niche half the size of what it is now by throwing everyone who doesn't fits into Chris Robert's and David Braben's arms.

Apparently averaging below 20,000 PCU is a desirable goal and we fringe hisec pve casual solo barbie lovers didn't notice. Question


You know.. quality over quantity.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#507 - 2013-10-16 16:08:24 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
(...) CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing.

(...).


Do you know what's funny? The only ones who are worried about that, are the people who should be playing something else. As far as CCP, the CSM and EVE-lovers are concerned, it's OK that EVE locks itself in a niche half the size of what it is now by throwing everyone who doesn't fits into Chris Robert's and David Braben's arms.

Apparently averaging below 20,000 PCU is a desirable goal and we fringe hisec pve casual solo barbie lovers didn't notice. Question


You know.. quality over quantity.


Something makes me think that CCP would be more inclined to claim that pecunia non odet.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#508 - 2013-10-16 16:28:13 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
(...) CCP announced new expansion and now we have clear answer for the question "what exactly CCP is going to do to make EVE more competitive?": exactly nothing.

(...).


Do you know what's funny? The only ones who are worried about that, are the people who should be playing something else. As far as CCP, the CSM and EVE-lovers are concerned, it's OK that EVE locks itself in a niche half the size of what it is now by throwing everyone who doesn't fits into Chris Robert's and David Braben's arms.

Apparently averaging below 20,000 PCU is a desirable goal and we fringe hisec pve casual solo barbie lovers didn't notice. Question


You know.. quality over quantity.


Something makes me think that CCP would be more inclined to claim that pecunia non odet.


But then there is self-respect and while CCP has done stunningly and embarrassingly stupid things recently and in the past, I don't think CCP wants to become a second Linden Labs just to cater to a particularly weird demographic.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#509 - 2013-10-16 17:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alpheias wrote:


You know.. quality over quantity.


Something makes me think that CCP would be more inclined to claim that pecunia non odet.


But then there is self-respect and while CCP has done stunningly and embarrassingly stupid things recently and in the past, I don't think CCP wants to become a second Linden Labs just to cater to a particularly weird demographic.



With the new Hallelujah Plan so cleverly devised to please nullseccers and nobody else, CCP is going to earn enough self respect from the leftover players as to replace the buns at their cafeteria with it. Which they'll have to do, anyway, because buns cost money. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#510 - 2013-10-16 17:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Alpheias wrote:

I have yet to hear either Mr. Braben or Mr. Roberts touch on the subject of PvE, while it is something that we can expect, and color me pessimistic but I think it is too soon to celebrate whatever PVE content in these games as milestones compared to what we have in EVE today.

Prepare to see Chris Roberts trying to raise even more money. Preferably in the billions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are set in a 30th-century Milky Way centered around the fictional UEE (United Empire of Earth), an analogue of the late Roman Empire.(rings any bells? next EVE "expansion" naming? Rubicon? Lol note that the game has not even launched yet and EVE is already drawing from it and trying to catch up with features like DX11 support) A central theme of the game is citizenship (or lack thereof) in the UEE, which must be earned through player actions (such as completing a period of military service). It is anticipated that Citizens will enjoy certain in game benefits, for example paying a reduced tax rate or having easier access to interspecies trade,[7] but the exact details are yet to be determined.
A strong focus will be placed on player interaction, with player behaviour influencing and being influenced by a dynamic economy system.

Alpheias wrote:

You know.. quality over quantity.
...
I don't think CCP wants to become a second Linden Labs just to cater to a particularly weird demographic.

I'm not sure CCPs' CEO and stakeholders share your point of view.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#511 - 2013-10-16 18:12:48 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Alpheias wrote:

I have yet to hear either Mr. Braben or Mr. Roberts touch on the subject of PvE, while it is something that we can expect, and color me pessimistic but I think it is too soon to celebrate whatever PVE content in these games as milestones compared to what we have in EVE today.

Prepare to see Chris Roberts trying to raise even more money. Preferably in the billions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are set in a 30th-century Milky Way centered around the fictional UEE (United Empire of Earth), an analogue of the late Roman Empire.(rings any bells? next EVE "expansion" naming? Rubicon? Lol note that the game has not even launched and EVE is already drawing from it and trying to catch up with features like DX11 support) A central theme of the game is citizenship (or lack thereof) in the UEE, which must be earned through player actions (such as completing a period of military service). It is anticipated that Citizens will enjoy certain in game benefits, for example paying a reduced tax rate or having easier access to interspecies trade,[7] but the exact details are yet to be determined.
A strong focus will be placed on player interaction, with player behaviour influencing and being influenced by a dynamic economy system


Rubicon is a river in northern Italy and that you go as far to argue that the naming of a expansion as a sign that CCP is playing catchup with Star Citizen, because of a analogue to the Roman Empire, is just grasping for straws.

raven666wings wrote:
A strong focus will be placed on player interaction, with player behaviour influencing and being influenced by a dynamic economy system[/i]


Sounds to me that Chris Roberts looks no further than EVE Online for inspiration, maybe even blatanly stealing from.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#512 - 2013-10-16 18:14:24 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alpheias wrote:


You know.. quality over quantity.


Something makes me think that CCP would be more inclined to claim that pecunia non odet.


But then there is self-respect and while CCP has done stunningly and embarrassingly stupid things recently and in the past, I don't think CCP wants to become a second Linden Labs just to cater to a particularly weird demographic.



With the new Hallelujah Plan so cleverly devised to please nullseccers and nobody else, CCP is going to earn enough self respect from the leftover players as to replace the buns at their cafeteria with it. Which they'll have to do, anyway, because buns cost money. Roll


Sure. They even got you to pay for the buns.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#513 - 2013-10-16 18:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Alpheias wrote:

Sounds to me that Chris Roberts looks no further than EVE Online for inspiration, maybe even blatanly stealing from.


Chris Roberts was making space sim games long before CCP even existed. Plus, it's old news that Trade Wars was were EVE drew from, and possibly from movie series like The Matrix (that premiered in late 90's at the same time CCP was developing EVE, and was itself inspired from previous works of science-fiction) to come up with the pod man-machine neural interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Wars#Legacy

In 2013, the designers of Star Citizen listed TradeWars 2002 among the games that inspired the design of their in-game economy.[8]

Games that are often compared to TradeWars include EVE Online, Jumpgate, Earth and Beyond, Pardus, and Spore (the space stage).[9]

Looks like where they get inspiration in the same place where EVE did.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#514 - 2013-10-16 19:07:47 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Alpheias wrote:

Sounds to me that Chris Roberts looks no further than EVE Online for inspiration, maybe even blatanly stealing from.


Chris Roberts was making space sim games long before CCP even existed. Plus, it's old news that Trade Wars was were EVE drew from, and possibly from movie series like The Matrix (that premiered in late 90's at the same time CCP was developing EVE, and was itself inspired from previous works of science-fiction) to come up with the pod man-machine neural interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Wars#Legacy

In 2013, the designers of Star Citizen listed TradeWars 2002 among the games that inspired the design of their in-game economy.[8]

Games that are often compared to TradeWars include EVE Online, Jumpgate, Earth and Beyond, Pardus, and Spore (the space stage).[9]

Looks like where they get inspiration in the same place where EVE did.


Sure, I don't see it as a negative that creative and talented people find inspiration in each others works. I think it is however ridiculous to think that CCP is somehow playing a game of catchup with Star Citizen because CCP named their winter expansion 'Rubicon'.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#515 - 2013-10-16 19:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Alpheias wrote:

I think it is however ridiculous to think that CCP is somehow playing a game of catchup with Star Citizen because CCP named their winter expansion 'Rubicon'.


Not only did they do that, but they also rushed the development of a twitch space combat sim because of it (EVR) and more recently the graphic engine DX11 support. Naming the next "expansion" (read life-support patch) after SC's UEE Roman Empire analogy or not is the most irrelevant of those.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#516 - 2013-10-16 20:09:07 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Alpheias wrote:

I have yet to hear either Mr. Braben or Mr. Roberts touch on the subject of PvE, while it is something that we can expect, and color me pessimistic but I think it is too soon to celebrate whatever PVE content in these games as milestones compared to what we have in EVE today.

Prepare to see Chris Roberts trying to raise even more money. Preferably in the billions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are set in a 30th-century Milky Way centered around the fictional UEE (United Empire of Earth), an analogue of the late Roman Empire.(rings any bells? next EVE "expansion" naming? Rubicon? Lol note that the game has not even launched yet and EVE is already drawing from it and trying to catch up with features like DX11 support) A central theme of the game is citizenship (or lack thereof) in the UEE, which must be earned through player actions (such as completing a period of military service). It is anticipated that Citizens will enjoy certain in game benefits, for example paying a reduced tax rate or having easier access to interspecies trade,[7] but the exact details are yet to be determined.
A strong focus will be placed on player interaction, with player behaviour influencing and being influenced by a dynamic economy system.

Alpheias wrote:

You know.. quality over quantity.
...
I don't think CCP wants to become a second Linden Labs just to cater to a particularly weird demographic.

I'm not sure CCPs' CEO and stakeholders share your point of view.


By the way, it turns that 49% of CCP is owned by investors. i'm not sure about what does that mean about CCP's ability to do as they please, but I expected a smaller presence of stakeholders.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Benjamin Hamburg
Chaos.Theory
#517 - 2013-10-16 20:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Benjamin Hamburg
It seems there is a lot of white knight here ready to defend their little princess EVE.

For the past decade, EVE was the sole space sim that didn't completely fail, and one of the few MMOs of today that didn't go free to play. Even though they are far from having the member base of Wow or other goblin-like game, their membership is relatively stable, unless when they focus on WiS (lol).

That being said, CCP is a private company who took advantage of a niche market, almost having the monopoly on it. Star Citizen could bring a little more competition in the equation, forcing both CCP and themselves to further enhance the gaming experience to the benefit of their respective player base. That's the whole point of capitalism.

After playing EVE for the last 3 years (my birthday is in a few day), EVE don't entertain me as before. For that reason, I pledge for Star Citizen, even though I really hope that EVE become more than a game I login twice a month to update my skill queue. Most people here don't seem to be in that situation, and I'm happy about that, but as far as I can tell, there is a lot of EVE players currently active on the SC forums.

And that's because it's completely possible to be active in 2 sci-fi games for a true sci-fi fan.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#518 - 2013-10-16 21:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:
It seems there is a lot of white knight here ready to defend their little princess EVE.

For the past decade, EVE was the sole space sim that didn't completely fail, and one of the few MMOs of today that didn't go free to play. Even though they are far from having the member base of Wow or other goblin-like game, their membership is relatively stable, unless when they focus on WiS (lol).

That being said, CCP is a private company who took advantage of a niche market, almost having the monopoly on it. Star Citizen could bring a little more competition in the equation, forcing both CCP and themselves to further enhance the gaming experience to the benefit of their respective player base. That's the whole point of capitalism.

After playing EVE for the last 3 years (my birthday is in a few day), EVE don't entertain me as before. For that reason, I pledge for Star Citizen, even though I really hope that EVE become more than a game I login twice a month to update my skill queue. Most people here don't seem to be in that situation, and I'm happy about that, but as far as I can tell, there is a lot of EVE players currently active on the SC forums.

And that's because it's completely possible to be active in 2 sci-fi games for a true sci-fi fan.


Wouldn't go as far as saying I am white knighting EVE. I just think some of the arguments "against" EVE are poorly constructed at best. Outright bizarre at worst.

But I am all for seeing Star Citizen (or Elite: Dangerous) rise and take the crown from EVE as the definite space game. Having said that, I will not follow the mindset that some individuals here have shown, and that is to build up unrealistic expectations from a game that is a year (if we are lucky) from even starting to resemble a finished product.

I have been burned too many times by games and the hype that surrounds them that I stick to the sensible and realistic approach to my interest in a number of games. And I want to get my hands on it before I say 'yay' or 'nay'.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#519 - 2013-10-17 09:47:36 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The only ones who are worried about that, are the people who should be playing something else.

Correct. Shouldn't play a game which charge $200/year without providing new content for years: the only changes in my gameplay during last 2 years were OGB nerf + drone-eating AI. I'm sure with PvP-focused "expansions" situation won't change in 2014 (and maybe in 2015) so switch to other 5 upcoming sandbox games isn't really a question.

Just it's a bit frustrating to abandon "investments" I've made into EVE while there were no other alternatives + to see how CCP is wasting huge potential while they still have money for actual expansions instead of PvP content which failed to attract more subscribers during last 4 years.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#520 - 2013-10-17 10:40:38 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Alpheias wrote:

I think it is however ridiculous to think that CCP is somehow playing a game of catchup with Star Citizen because CCP named their winter expansion 'Rubicon'.


Not only did they do that, but they also rushed the development of a twitch space combat sim because of it (EVR) and more recently the graphic engine DX11 support. Naming the next "expansion" (read life-support patch) after SC's UEE Roman Empire analogy or not is the most irrelevant of those.


Rushed? It was literally a team of five dudes that on their free time herped and derped around with the Unity engine and the Oculus Rift, and in the process of herp and derp created one of the most iconic tech demos for the Oculus Rift.

It wasn't until after Fanfest and several gaming conventions that it became official that it would be a actual game. Probably thanks to the phenomenal response from gaming press and gamers all over the world.

Life support patch? I'd call it a life support patch if CCP were forced to do a SWTOR.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.