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EVE's Bait & Switch Design Philosophy

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2013-07-15 21:17:14 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Everquest, which predates both WoW and Eve, had I think 3mil accounts at around the same time Eve launched.

Not sure on the current subscribers now (they went F2p) but they are still in existence and going strong.

/shrug


Largest MMO at that time was EQII (coming off of EQ) with a player base of around 500k (2005 showed 500k).

Big in MMOs didn't occur until WoW surged forward in 2006 with the release of The Burning Crusade. Peaking to around 12 million in 2010 in the Wrath of the Lich King.



I'm talking about before Planes of Power and only getting into the introduction of Alternate Abilities and before they started having to merge servers.

EQ was very very popular back then. Before AC and the other spinoffs, before WoW, before Eve.

My point was... at the time there was a huge bottleneck to the gaming industry. EQ springboarded that genre and the floodgates opened.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-07-15 21:25:55 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
plex accounts are paid


Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same.

Alt accounts (the m-a-n-y alt accounts that exist in EvE) are operated solely on PLEXing. So in the end, it's still a game for whales.


Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month. If we correlate that directly to accounts, that means 100k accounts are PLEXed. Of course, there are sales in regions other than The Forge, but there are also PLEX speculators. Estimates of the number of accounts per player have varied from 1.3 to 2.5 depending on time and source, so there are likely many alt accounts that are not PLEXed, with PLEXed accounts being a small portion of the total. This is in direct contrast to F2P games, where most people never pay a cent to the developer, with a few people bringing in lots of purchases.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#183 - 2013-07-15 21:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Considering that you can Google, Ruby, that evidence is right before your eyes.
In other words, you have no sources and no data.

Quote:
Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P.
…if by “sporadically” you mean “once every 30 days, just like all other subscription forms” and if by “F2P” you mean “can't play without paying”. That sounds rather non-sporadic and non-F2P.
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#184 - 2013-07-15 21:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same.


Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time for a single account. They are functionally and financially equivalent to subscription payments. Company finances function on a quarterly basis; it's not like CCP sends a rep over to the bank every day to collect the day's take in order to pay the bills and the guy at the bank says "Oh, sorry guys, too many PLEXers today" and then CCP goes a month without air conditioning or bagels at the office so they can keep the lights on.

PLEX has nothing in common with F2P whatsoever. Again, something you must know because it doesn't take much more than a funcitoning cerebellum and a basic grasp of base-10 number systems to tell the difference.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2013-07-15 21:58:47 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same.


Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time for a single account.


PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK. Which is exactly what can be done in F2P games to buy gold.

You need to see what PLEX really is, not just sugar coat it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#186 - 2013-07-15 22:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Paid sporadically like the F2P model. PLEX is F2P. Take the window dressing off of it, it operates just the same.


Absolute, unequivocal nonsense. One PLEX = 30 days of game time for a single account.


PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK. Which is exactly what can be done in F2P games to buy gold.

You need to see what PLEX really is, not just sugar coat it.


People can sell GTCs in WoW for gold..

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2013-07-15 22:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month.


Even at 200k PLEX that's $3,990,000 spent every month.

Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle? Blizzard can sell a pony and get more money off of it the next day, than 8 months of PLEX.

Got to have the players.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#188 - 2013-07-15 22:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
PLEX can also be bought to sell for ISK.
…but not created, and not only once in a while when you feel like it. They require real cash and demand it at regular intervals. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of how F2P games work. Also, trying to buy “gold” for cash in EVE lands you with a negative wallet…

Quote:
Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle?
Seeing as how F2P games are earning cash by the bucketload if properly designed for it, no. And neither do the game companies. Not that it really matters to EVE, though, since it's not a F2P game and CCP have long since figured out that it's pretty much impossible to turn it into one.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2013-07-15 22:12:09 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
People can sell GTCs in WoW for gold..


If they were foolish enough to buy them, when the game has so much gold now to begin with. Just questing have enough to pick up 3k a day. More than enough to buy anything needed.

The problem in WoW is having gold sinks now, not needing gold.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2013-07-15 22:15:47 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

Well, in The Forge there are an average of 100k PLEX sold every month.


Even at 200k PLEX that's $3,990,000 spent every month.

Now you can see why F2P is a losing battle? Blizzard can sell a pony and get more money off of it the next day, than 8 months of PLEX.

Got to have the players.


Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed.
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-07-15 22:17:24 UTC
To make PvE feel less like a drag, it has to be made more like PvP, which means:

*) every rat has a warp scrambler or disruptor - and yes that means they can shut down your MWD
*) some rats have webs
*) rats using MWD whenever they can, not just to approach player
*) rats using strong buffer tanks
*) rats running away from player that is more powerful than them - unless player uses warp disruption on them
*) rats calling for backup to gank a player at is fighting a smaller group
*) rats having special ships that use all forms of EW

Are you sure you want EVE PvE to be interesting?
I think most people prefer the boring grind
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#192 - 2013-07-15 22:35:57 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed.


No. Same point.

EvE makes it's cash on those whales. Kids otherwise who can't afford it, PLEX. Those wanting an army of gatecamping IsBox accounts, PLEX. Your own Goons admit they can sweet talk their way to 5 PLEX a month.

They're not paying, some whale is.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Khoul Ay'd
The Affiliation
#193 - 2013-07-15 22:38:13 UTC
I grow so weary of "Boo-hoo, CCP/EVE is (dead/dying/cheating/unfair)" No one is making you or anyone else play this game nor are they telling you how to play it (That may possibly occur on Serenity, but that's an entirely different matter).

I've played this game for just short of five years now and still feel as though I've only scratched the surface of all that is possible. Is some of the content stale, yeah, but no one is forcing you to play that way. If its lost it's luster, try something new or move on, just cause you no longer are fascinated by New Eden does not mean that's true for the rest of us.

Really, if you don't like it leave. And no, I don't want your stuff for fear I may be infected with a whatever causes your sour outlook.

The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-07-15 22:38:21 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

Why are you arguing a completely different point now? EVE isn't primarily a game for whales like you claimed.


No. Same point.

EvE makes it's cash on those whales. Kids otherwise who can't afford it, PLEX. Those wanting an army of gatecamping IsBox accounts, PLEX. Your own Goons admit they can sweet talk their way to 5 PLEX a month.

They're not paying, some whale is.


And all those PLEX purchases are still only a fraction of the actual game subscriptions. The whales aren't very big.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#195 - 2013-07-15 22:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
EvE makes it's cash on those whales.
[citation needed]

Quote:
They're not paying, some whale is.
…which still doesn't make it a F2P game.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2013-07-15 22:52:41 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I'm talking about before Planes of Power and only getting into the introduction of Alternate Abilities and before they started having to merge servers.

EQ was very very popular back then. Before AC and the other spinoffs, before WoW, before Eve.

My point was... at the time there was a huge bottleneck to the gaming industry. EQ springboarded that genre and the floodgates opened.


It never had 3 million subs though. Millions have played the game, but not millions of subs.

EQII was suppose to usher in the new MMO, but fumbled not only with the engine, but going to war against players (around 2005, when it peaked in subs, around 500k). That's how WoW got it's springboard. After 2006 it was all history (even though vanilla and TBC weren't really good. It took WotLK to finally get some polish into WoW, and make sense of the class abilities and gear even). But that was offered and anyone at Wal-Mart could pick up the game to play.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2013-07-15 22:54:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
which still doesn't make it a F2P game.

[citation needed]

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#198 - 2013-07-15 23:14:35 UTC
I believe there is great PvE in EVE, you just need to get out of the level 4 mission grind to find it.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#199 - 2013-07-15 23:23:19 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
[citation needed]
Not really, no. It's not an F2P by very definition, since you need a paid-for account to play.

Quote:
It never had 3 million subs though. Millions have played the game, but not millions of subs.
How did you play it without a sub, seeing as how it was a subscription-based game?
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2013-07-15 23:28:07 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
[citation needed]


PLEX costs money.

Citation provided, you ridiculous goober.

It doesn't matter whether the cash comes from 30,000 people or one person buying 30,000 PLEX. EVE is not F2P.