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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Minmatar Tornado

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Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#501 - 2011-10-30 03:45:57 UTC
What you need to consider is this: will these ships have enough tank to give logi's the time to even rep them?

Consider this, a 15-man fleet of these new ships runs up against a 15-man fleet of drakes or hurricanes. Sure, the new tier 3 ships may have a ton more DPS, but even if there are equal logi's on both sides, can the tier 3 fleet drop the the canes or hurricanes sufficently faster? Also, if they have even only 70% of the current BC tank (lets just say around 50k EHP), will a 15-man fleet alpha from canes/drakes be too much for them to handle?

I believe the new tier 3 BCs will function somewhat like the tier 3 BSs. Take for example, a maelstrom. It does great damage and a sturdier shield tank than the tier 2 BS, but its slow, has little room for eWAR and a slow lock time. I imagine that the tornado will match a cane in slots(maybe 1 less low), and the powergrid will be set up in a way so that 1 powergrid mod lets you upgrade from 650s to 800s or so, or lets you use another LSE, etc. To be honest, I don't expect that 1400s will fit on the tornado. But the key to the tornado being balanced is that its advantages need to be severely diminished if the ship is flown with a heavy tank.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#502 - 2011-10-30 15:26:05 UTC
from the look of the numbers, the tank's probably between a t1 cruiser and a BC.
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#503 - 2011-11-01 19:08:28 UTC
Caldari Naga- Official

Amarr Oracle- Official
Jerek Mothas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#504 - 2011-11-02 01:30:40 UTC
In rust we trust. Long live the Republic! (This oughta keep those Amarrian bastards off our backs!)

Failfitting ships since 2007.

"Those who control their tongue will have a long life; opening your mouth can ruin everything." - Solomon
Gorou Dai
Wings of Turul
#505 - 2011-11-02 09:11:58 UTC
I would be happier with a Tornado Battlership, but Im looking forward to try it anyway.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2011-11-03 00:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Phantomania wrote:
Caldari Naga- Official

Amarr Oracle- Official


I doubt those are "official" at all. Wheres your proof?

I do however believe the Amarr Oracle since it was the second contest winner and it makes sense while also looking cool. The Caldari one is one I voted for but I will be surprised if that one is really the winner for this. That would look rather odd as a Battlecruiser as it is clearly meant to be very large.

Edit: On second thought...if they did shrink that down a bit those sides would be awesome for oversized gun platforms so long as said guns looked really huge on them.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#507 - 2011-11-03 00:25:48 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Phantomania wrote:
Caldari Naga- Official

Amarr Oracle- Official


I doubt those are "official" at all. Wheres your proof?

I do however believe the Amarr Oracle since it was the second contest winner and it makes sense while also looking cool. The Caldari one is one I voted for but I will be surprised if that one is really the winner for this. That would look rather odd as a Battlecruiser as it is clearly meant to be very large.

Edit: On second thought...if they did shrink that down a bit those sides would be awesome for oversized gun platforms so long as said guns looked really huge on them.


Check the second art department video blog. A rough design of the Caldari and Amarr Tier 3 BC hulls is briefly shown.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#508 - 2011-11-03 11:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Jaigar wrote:
What you need to consider is this: will these ships have enough tank to give logi's the time to even rep them?

Consider this, a 15-man fleet of these new ships runs up against a 15-man fleet of drakes or hurricanes. Sure, the new tier 3 ships may have a ton more DPS, but even if there are equal logi's on both sides, can the tier 3 fleet drop the the canes or hurricanes sufficently faster? Also, if they have even only 70% of the current BC tank (lets just say around 50k EHP), will a 15-man fleet alpha from canes/drakes be too much for them to handle?

I believe the new tier 3 BCs will function somewhat like the tier 3 BSs. Take for example, a maelstrom. It does great damage and a sturdier shield tank than the tier 2 BS, but its slow, has little room for eWAR and a slow lock time. I imagine that the tornado will match a cane in slots(maybe 1 less low), and the powergrid will be set up in a way so that 1 powergrid mod lets you upgrade from 650s to 800s or so, or lets you use another LSE, etc. To be honest, I don't expect that 1400s will fit on the tornado. But the key to the tornado being balanced is that its advantages need to be severely diminished if the ship is flown with a heavy tank.


I'd say 15 of those new toy's vs 15 arty canes, the diff would probably come from the fc tactics and fits.

If 15 of those new toys jump too close or are dropped too close by AC canes, there's no match. Cane fleet will win, a triple gyro double TE cane can push tremendous dps and still have high mobility, over 40k EHP, fit web or scram or both.

Change the 2 regular neuts in to 2 HM launchers and win faster, loot and find the next Tier 3 BC gang
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#509 - 2011-11-04 15:15:00 UTC
I just tested the Tornado on Singularity. My basic PvP fit:

8x 800mm AC ll
10 MN MWD ll, 2x LSE ll, Azetrophic EM ward, Warp Disrupter ll
DCU ll, TE ll, 2x Gyrostab ll

Okay, no dronebay but fast enough with a MWD (1661m/s) and with the falloff bonus and a tracking enhancer basic ammo gave me 46km falloff and barrage even 70km.

So the Tornado is a kick ass ship that can kite and wear down it's enemies from distance. A pocket Machariel Pirate

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Korvin
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
#510 - 2011-11-04 16:31:21 UTC
Goodbye empire citizens, flying anything smaller than a battlecruiser or anything with a price more than a 60 mil in a fit or cargo.

Now what I will do - is drop all my good ships in a station for a year, and fly cheap fitted drake now. Good job.

Member of CSM 4&5 ... &8
Remarka Belle Locus
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2011-11-05 03:37:29 UTC
Y'know, we've got some great, fairly desktop-worthy images of the other Tier 3 Ships, can we get one for the Tornado please?
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#512 - 2011-11-06 00:35:43 UTC
tornado needs a nerf , 840dps ac with 60km falloff easy to hit even frigs ... or just fit arties and do nearly tempest alpha for half the hull price... is this supposed to be a joke? becuse it is not funny,
i bet tempest fleets will be changed into tornado fleets cheaper faster and capstable with mwd on ... so imbalanced
also they will do the job better due to tracking bonus and faster lock and speed
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#513 - 2011-11-06 00:58:31 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
tornado needs a nerf , 840dps ac with 60km falloff easy to hit even frigs ... or just fit arties and do nearly tempest alpha for half the hull price... is this supposed to be a joke? becuse it is not funny,
i bet tempest fleets will be changed into tornado fleets cheaper faster and capstable with mwd on ... so imbalanced
also they will do the job better due to tracking bonus and faster lock and speed



Actually there's no reason to fly something else in fleets or gangs. Let's see what's the next they will nerf (more) and witch buff they will add to this one.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#514 - 2011-11-06 11:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Tanya Powers wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
tornado needs a nerf , 840dps ac with 60km falloff easy to hit even frigs ... or just fit arties and do nearly tempest alpha for half the hull price... is this supposed to be a joke? becuse it is not funny,
i bet tempest fleets will be changed into tornado fleets cheaper faster and capstable with mwd on ... so imbalanced
also they will do the job better due to tracking bonus and faster lock and speed



Actually there's no reason to fly something else in fleets or gangs. Let's see what's the next they will nerf (more) and witch buff they will add to this one.



Ya no fear. There going to buff Hybirds some more so that means Winmatar weapons will probly get better again. I am also looking forward to the buff to the Naga mybe there will be some kind of other buff for amarr hidden in that one so they can keep up with Winmatar.


O wait I know mybe there going to add a target painting bounce to Tornado next and turn the Naga in to a Hybird ship with no missiles.

At least it sounds like something CCP would do.Bear

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#515 - 2011-11-06 11:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Rip Minner wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
tornado needs a nerf , 840dps ac with 60km falloff easy to hit even frigs ... or just fit arties and do nearly tempest alpha for half the hull price... is this supposed to be a joke? becuse it is not funny,
i bet tempest fleets will be changed into tornado fleets cheaper faster and capstable with mwd on ... so imbalanced
also they will do the job better due to tracking bonus and faster lock and speed



Actually there's no reason to fly something else in fleets or gangs. Let's see what's the next they will nerf (more) and witch buff they will add to this one.



Ya no fear. There going to buff Hybirds some more so that means Winmatar weapons will probly get better again. I am also looking forward to the buff to the Naga mybe there will be some kind of other buff for amarr hidden in that one so they can keep up with Winmatar.


O wait I know mybe there going to add a target painting bounce to Tornado next and turn the Naga in to a Hybird ship with no missiles.

At least it sounds like something CCP would do.Bear


Just saw some Naga log last night when we were shooting some cap stuff: "Your Citadel Torpedo does (about) 27K dmg to..." Shocked

Edit: fake?? -need to test it Lol
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#516 - 2011-11-06 21:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
it is good to see tornado able to fit 2 large shield extenders besides 800mm t2 ac-s +mwd.... it is so paper...

also love how with guns only fitted have more spare cpu than the nage siege missiles only fitted.... oh and have the best 5/4 medlow slot layout which is much less cpu intensive as the nagas 6/3
btw why tracking comps are so crap compared to tracking enhacers???
it needs cap , +20cpu to fit which is huge , and you have to activate it too , crappy it should give more optimal and tracking

the best part is siege missile l needs a little more pg than 800mm ac to fit on them... wtf.... who the hell calls that balance?
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#517 - 2011-11-06 23:39:06 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
it is good to see tornado able to fit 2 large shield extenders besides 800mm t2 ac-s +mwd.... it is so paper...

also love how with guns only fitted have more spare cpu than the nage siege missiles only fitted.... oh and have the best 5/4 medlow slot layout which is much less cpu intensive as the nagas 6/3
btw why tracking comps are so crap compared to tracking enhacers???
it needs cap , +20cpu to fit which is huge , and you have to activate it too , crappy it should give more optimal and tracking

the best part is siege missile l needs a little more pg than 800mm ac to fit on them... wtf.... who the hell calls that balance?



It's the Winmatar flow. So just go with the flow. Roll

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#518 - 2011-11-07 08:41:57 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:



It's the Winmatar flow. So just go with the flow. Roll

yes but it is for 3 years by now , kinda gets booring
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#519 - 2011-11-07 18:56:47 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:



It's the Winmatar flow. So just go with the flow. Roll

yes but it is for 3 years by now , kinda gets booring


I'm also bored of flying angel and minmatar over my toon's first race, specially to shoot angel minmatar and amarr stuff.

Well some time a blob of drakes here'n there but it's so boring.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#520 - 2011-11-08 06:47:34 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:



It's the Winmatar flow. So just go with the flow. Roll

yes but it is for 3 years by now , kinda gets booring



Almost as boring as your 'nerf Minmitar', boost everything else' agenda.

Sad things was you were still singing the SAME tune 3 years ago when Minmitar NEEDED a boost.

You are joke.