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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Minmatar Tornado

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Author
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#481 - 2011-10-26 20:42:19 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Just been looking through that change file for SISI and I noticed something - the CPU and PG values for the new ships:

Oracle: CPU 370, PG 1375
Naga: CPU 470, PG 895
Talos: CPU 400, PG 1150
Tornado: CPU 350, PG 990

Am I reading it wrong? Those numbers (in particular the PG values) will probably make it impossible to fit 8 large turrets.

Have they really do this? Given them the potential for T3 BS levels of firepower and then taken it away by limiting the CPU and PG?

Someone please tell me I read it wrong



I'm sure the % of CPU & PG reductions for modules given on the ships bonus's will allow for a balanced fit!
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#482 - 2011-10-26 20:48:07 UTC
the change file also had multipliers for PG and cpu in it, for the weapon types they're supposed to use (large projectile for the tornado, for example). Generally 0.5 for cpu and 0.05 for PG.
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#483 - 2011-10-26 21:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Imryn Xaran
Yeah, I saw the CPU and PG hull bonus's for fitting, but 50% of 1250 (large projectile turret) is still 625. I haven't run the math but I don't think you will fit 8 of them, even with AWU V etc.

Some guys have been experimenting with Tornado and Talos fits using a python fitting tool in another thread

[url]http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9021/tornadoacfleet.png[/url]
[url]http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5238/taloample.jpg[/url]

In the first one he has fitted 800mm Repeating Artillery II's (PG 2200, CPU 41) with a fitting cost of PG 99, CPU 15.4
That is a huge reduction in PG requirements and I wonder if he set the fitting tool wrong.

I guess what I am basing my suspicions on is the fact that the worst BS PG is the Dommi with 9000 - how can we fit 8 large turrets with the tiny PG they have given us? even with a 50% fitting bonus I would expect to see a PG of 4500, and instead we have 1/4 of that.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#484 - 2011-10-26 21:58:52 UTC
Um, 95% reduction in powergrid usage according to the suggested abilities? Taking the Amarr one as an example
Based on that and my quick maths (after a long and tiring day - may be wrong) would suggest that 8 Tachyons (llooooads of grid usage normally) would take 1650 powergrid. The Amarr ship has 1375 - so it's not going to fit a full rack of T2 Tachs without fitting mods compromising the rest of the fit - which is fine.

Lets assume you have a mwd and a 1600mm plate on the fit, that's approx 650 grid used. Leaving 725 Grid. Enough to fit the lowest tier Battleship guns comfortably. Downgrade the plate and you'll fit more.
Ofcourse this is all before taking into account skills boosting the basic grid of the ship (engineering) and fitting skills (advanced weapon upgrades)

Don't think we're going to be having an issue fitting guns to these at the moment...
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#485 - 2011-10-26 22:11:00 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Um, 95% reduction in powergrid usage according to the suggested abilities? Taking the Amarr one as an example
Based on that and my quick maths (after a long and tiring day - may be wrong) would suggest that 8 Tachyons (llooooads of grid usage normally) would take 1650 powergrid. The Amarr ship has 1375 - so it's not going to fit a full rack of T2 Tachs without fitting mods compromising the rest of the fit - which is fine.

Lets assume you have a mwd and a 1600mm plate on the fit, that's approx 650 grid used. Leaving 725 Grid. Enough to fit the lowest tier Battleship guns comfortably. Downgrade the plate and you'll fit more.
Ofcourse this is all before taking into account skills boosting the basic grid of the ship (engineering) and fitting skills (advanced weapon upgrades)

Don't think we're going to be having an issue fitting guns to these at the moment...


Ok, thanks. I had mis-read the hull bonuses as 50% for both CPU and PG requirements. My bad :(
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#486 - 2011-10-26 22:28:31 UTC
No probs :)

Just tried the new Pyfa build - it has the new ships in it. Oracle can fit T2 Tachs with a bit of space to spare if you want all out sniping ability :D
Megapulse laser fit looks pretty sweet too, not as delicate as I was kinda worrying - however by no means tanky!
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#487 - 2011-10-27 07:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Imryn Xaran
Which version of Python do you need to install for Pyfa? Thought I would give it a go but can't see which one I need - it just says that Python is a prerequisite

Edit: never mind, 2.7
Martineski
Weapons for Mass Destruction
#488 - 2011-10-27 18:58:19 UTC
ok so we can fit BS class weapons, but being that they are still Battlecruisers, will they retain the ability to equip Command links? i feel that it would be a disservice to leave that ability out. The idea of glass cannons is nice, and the trade off of defenses is nice, but it should still be able to provide a little fleet support. haven't rea all of hte blogs yet so don't flame me to death :)
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#489 - 2011-10-27 20:10:28 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
No probs :)

Just tried the new Pyfa build - it has the new ships in it. Oracle can fit T2 Tachs with a bit of space to spare if you want all out sniping ability :D
Megapulse laser fit looks pretty sweet too, not as delicate as I was kinda worrying - however by no means tanky!


I have been trying to find the version of pyfa with the new ships in it - with no luck. I have tried the version from:

http://pyfa.sourceforge.net/download.html

but that seems to be an old version. I have also tried:

http://www.evefit.org/Pyfa/Installation

The stable version (1.0.6) does not seem to have them, and the "nightly Installer" version at:

http://dl.evefit.org/nighty-netinst-latest-win.exe

does not have them either.

Is there another version that I am missing? Are they in the Mac version only? Do I need to do anything to make the new ships visible / available? Any help or advice would be appreciated
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#490 - 2011-10-27 20:23:50 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=256841#post256841

I used the version linked here :)
Looks like it isn't an official release hence why it is more difficult to find.
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#491 - 2011-10-27 20:33:45 UTC
That works great. thanks very much
Chavez Kurosaki
Doomheim
#492 - 2011-10-28 10:50:17 UTC
Wait for it..... What's their use? The guns are still gonna track like BS guns right? Trash, who wants these ships if there's no practical use?I won't be wasting the isk.
Chavez Kurosaki
Doomheim
#493 - 2011-10-28 11:06:23 UTC
Another question, why in the hell aren't we using sub systems? We figured out how to use this sick sleeper tech then we make a crappy ship? Wtf we're collapsing like the Jovian empire and we didnt even make it as far as them. 

Is this a money issue? Is that why the developers don't want to go into detail on this ship? I don't want to spend the isk on a POS ship even if it looks cool. Why is CCP on this trend of making things half assed? Sorry not a fanboy of this gold plated horse crap. 
TheButcherPete
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#494 - 2011-10-28 12:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: TheButcherPete
Chavez Kurosaki wrote:
Another question, why in the hell aren't we using sub systems? We figured out how to use this sick sleeper tech then we make a crappy ship? Wtf we're collapsing like the Jovian empire and we didnt even make it as far as them. 

Is this a money issue? Is that why the developers don't want to go into detail on this ship? I don't want to spend the isk on a POS ship even if it looks cool. Why is CCP on this trend of making things half assed? Sorry not a fanboy of this gold plated horse crap. 



umad, bro?
It doesn't have subsystems because it's a tier 3, not a tech III.
The only thing that tracks smaller ships well are smaller guns. Yes, it will fit battleship guns because the tier 3 BCs are designed to kill other BCs and Battleships. These ships also have a role in the killing of capitals and supercapitals, because they move like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Chavez Kurosaki
Doomheim
#495 - 2011-10-28 22:16:04 UTC
Im not your bro.lol Your answer for the subsystems is bullshit. You pull that out of your ass? Tech and tier that's all a figure of speech.

 The idea is, if the races of new Eden have the technology now why aren't they using it? It's pretty sick ****. 

My answer is that it would take to much development to make subsystems for new ships. Not only would it take more coding but the art team would have to make different designs for each subsystem. Hence the reference to money. Think a little before you post. 

I wanna see these ships own caps...
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#496 - 2011-10-28 23:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Chavez Kurosaki wrote:
Im not your bro.lol Your answer for the subsystems is bullshit. You pull that out of your ass? Tech and tier that's all a figure of speech.

 The idea is, if the races of new Eden have the technology now why aren't they using it? It's pretty sick ****. 

My answer is that it would take to much development to make subsystems for new ships. Not only would it take more coding but the art team would have to make different designs for each subsystem. Hence the reference to money. Think a little before you post. 

I wanna see these ships own caps...

Tech and Tier are 2 different things and are not interchangeable, Cyclone is a Tier 1 BC, Hurricane Tier 2, Tornado will be tier 3. All 3 of them are Tech 1 ships. It's not a scaled up Loki and therefore doesn't have subs. And besides, what is the point of having user submitted designs if your going to throw them out of the window and rework each piece 3 times anyways?
Chavez Kurosaki
Doomheim
#497 - 2011-10-29 05:42:42 UTC
OMG Tyberius where did you get your info? you're pulling crap out of thin air. STFU if you don't know what youre saying. It's all semantics. The question is not the meaning behind words but the "Technology" the races of New Eden have and why they would not continue to use that "technology"? all three of the strategic cruisers have a base design man.

In the real world, if the US Gov has some super f'ing cool technology they use that ****. They use the hell out of it, they over use it. Why isn't the Minmatar republic using it? is your reason because of the semantics of a word? Tier and Tech? really??? bullcrap. So an entire group of people are like, "We're not going to use this really sick technology that makes our ships so much fing cooler than our old **** because we would have to use the world "Tech" instead of "Tier"." WTF makes no sense. Thanks for try guy. or that entire race of people aren't going to use it because some engineer designed a certain way. WTF WTF so we don't build on the **** already created. All the other engineers in New Eden are like ah **** thats an Fing cool ship, man too bad he made it now we can't sup this **** up and make it even better. Bullcrap. If a ship designer was in competition with other ship designers, Why the Hell would he not put the best crap in there?

Stop with your semantics bullshit. Give me a real answer with a reference. You sound stupid when you talk.
Asenghai
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#498 - 2011-10-29 13:14:36 UTC
I'm more excited than a teenage girl in a Victoria's Secret shop lol! Keep em coming, want to see the new amarr and caldari ships
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#499 - 2011-10-29 15:19:09 UTC
Chavez Kurosaki wrote:
OMG Tyberius where did you get your info? you're pulling crap out of thin air. STFU if you don't know what youre saying. It's all semantics. The question is not the meaning behind words but the "Technology" the races of New Eden have and why they would not continue to use that "technology"? all three of the strategic cruisers have a base design man.

In the real world, if the US Gov has some super f'ing cool technology they use that ****. They use the hell out of it, they over use it. Why isn't the Minmatar republic using it? is your reason because of the semantics of a word? Tier and Tech? really??? bullcrap. So an entire group of people are like, "We're not going to use this really sick technology that makes our ships so much fing cooler than our old **** because we would have to use the world "Tech" instead of "Tier"." WTF makes no sense. Thanks for try guy. or that entire race of people aren't going to use it because some engineer designed a certain way. WTF WTF so we don't build on the **** already created. All the other engineers in New Eden are like ah **** thats an Fing cool ship, man too bad he made it now we can't sup this **** up and make it even better. Bullcrap. If a ship designer was in competition with other ship designers, Why the Hell would he not put the best crap in there?

Stop with your semantics bullshit. Give me a real answer with a reference. You sound stupid when you talk.



You sir don't know human nature, there is a ton of high level technology we have today that isent implimented by militarys simply because people are afraid of change. the military has always had a problem with "we know this weapon works so we will stick with it" its happened like this for 100s of years.

So yeah we have this new B-A tech but capsilirs are the only ones that fly it, no pirates or races militarys do. Its not hard to belive that one of the militarys RD had these BCs in development for years and just finaly finished, and with how it is in eve then sold the BPOs off to the other races for some extra spending money. The militarys mass produce them and we just happen to get some ourselfs since we Capsiliers are cool like that.

As for CCP not makign a Tech 3 its becase they needed a new ship out asap, and modular ships would take way longer to produce, and if they released a Tech 3 that wasent modular people would have a fit.

And yes there are teirs od ships, get over it. Teirs are represented by skils required to fly said ship and the obvious buff in stats that seperate ships in the same class.
Shlunky
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#500 - 2011-10-30 02:50:03 UTC
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:
Chavez Kurosaki wrote:
OMG Tyberius where did you get your info? you're pulling crap out of thin air. STFU if you don't know what youre saying. It's all semantics. The question is not the meaning behind words but the "Technology" the races of New Eden have and why they would not continue to use that "technology"? all three of the strategic cruisers have a base design man.

In the real world, if the US Gov has some super f'ing cool technology they use that ****. They use the hell out of it, they over use it. Why isn't the Minmatar republic using it? is your reason because of the semantics of a word? Tier and Tech? really??? bullcrap. So an entire group of people are like, "We're not going to use this really sick technology that makes our ships so much fing cooler than our old **** because we would have to use the world "Tech" instead of "Tier"." WTF makes no sense. Thanks for try guy. or that entire race of people aren't going to use it because some engineer designed a certain way. WTF WTF so we don't build on the **** already created. All the other engineers in New Eden are like ah **** thats an Fing cool ship, man too bad he made it now we can't sup this **** up and make it even better. Bullcrap. If a ship designer was in competition with other ship designers, Why the Hell would he not put the best crap in there?

Stop with your semantics bullshit. Give me a real answer with a reference. You sound stupid when you talk.



You sir don't know human nature, there is a ton of high level technology we have today that isent implimented by militarys simply because people are afraid of change. the military has always had a problem with "we know this weapon works so we will stick with it" its happened like this for 100s of years.

So yeah we have this new B-A tech but capsilirs are the only ones that fly it, no pirates or races militarys do. Its not hard to belive that one of the militarys RD had these BCs in development for years and just finaly finished, and with how it is in eve then sold the BPOs off to the other races for some extra spending money. The militarys mass produce them and we just happen to get some ourselfs since we Capsiliers are cool like that.

As for CCP not makign a Tech 3 its becase they needed a new ship out asap, and modular ships would take way longer to produce, and if they released a Tech 3 that wasent modular people would have a fit.

And yes there are teirs od ships, get over it. Teirs are represented by skils required to fly said ship and the obvious buff in stats that seperate ships in the same class.



As much as I appreciate your response to this person, he is simply a troll. I wouldn't waste any more on him....

Personally, about the ship, i am hesitant. I like that they are adding new ships. I think that the game has been stale in that department too long. This isn't the direction I would like for them to have gone though. Personally, I would have rather had a T2 tier 2 BC.

As it is, it seems like they are giving this roughly command ship DPS in a T1 tier 3 BC. They say BS dps in a faster hull. Isn't that where BC's are already?

I will wait to see how it rolls out before my final judgement is made... Hopefully they (CCP) will keep going with introducing more to the game, especially in the area of ships.