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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Minmatar Tornado

First post First post
Author
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2011-11-10 11:04:20 UTC
So how to balance this ship?

I would remove falloff bonus , changed it to something not weapon related.
And would make it able to use ac-s only , no fitting bonuses for arties.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#522 - 2011-11-10 18:38:12 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
So how to balance this ship?

I would remove falloff bonus , changed it to something not weapon related.
And would make it able to use ac-s only , no fitting bonuses for arties.


Actually is take off a middle slot or low one (less tank or less dps mods) because it tanks too good and (hp and speed) has the best dmg projection/application of all 4 atm

If this means a problem because of same number of slots than other BC's have, it's clearly the guns that are in need of nerf stick, change the dmg/rof/falloff whatever bonus
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#523 - 2011-11-12 09:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Tanya Powers wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
So how to balance this ship?

I would remove falloff bonus , changed it to something not weapon related.
And would make it able to use ac-s only , no fitting bonuses for arties.


Actually is take off a middle slot or low one (less tank or less dps mods) because it tanks too good and (hp and speed) has the best dmg projection/application of all 4 atm

If this means a problem because of same number of slots than other BC's have, it's clearly the guns that are in need of nerf stick, change the dmg/rof/falloff whatever bonus



O ya no CCP would never do that. They have to much time invested in the Trust in Rust moto to cave now.

But realy what are the cons to projectial weapons

1.) 10 sec reload timer?

I cant think of any other drawback. Now if you too can not think of any other drawback to projectails then plz list the drawbacks of the other two weapon systems of Hybirds and Lazers.

So to realy balance a game you realy need to have just as many drawbacks as you do con's for every weapon system at least when there all gunnery weapon systems.

It's like Hybirds=flintlock black powder riffles and Projectials=Mk16's or want ever. Now what armry is going to fight back with flintlock black powder riffles when there enemys are cuting them down with Mk16's. I will tell you what kind of armry a dead armry thats who.

And then rest of the world is going to see that flintlock black powder armry get cut down and though away all there flintlock blackpowder riffles and get them selfs some Mk16's.

Edit: So whats the point of all that bs I just though up there. 1.) Remove all but one draw back on Hybirds and Lazors or 2.) Add drawbacks to projectials and now your starting to balance things. Balancing the Pro's and Con's of all Gunnery weapon systems to have a fair and even mix of Pro's and Con's should be your first step in realy balance this crap.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#524 - 2011-11-13 13:51:38 UTC
If you want your guns to perform you need at least 3 MFS's and 2 TE's on your hybrid platform.

That should be possible for shield ships like caldari but they have other issues like not enough pg...
Then you return on your blaster tub, holly shift, 5 low slots only to improve dps and dmg projection at the level of projectiles/lasers?

Yeah, now tell me how you fit your tank, or how you can fit the required mwd+web+scram/disruptor/cap injector
No one will make me believe we're all gonna drop the cap injector after the winter expansion, will just be worst when you'll face Tornados, they don't need to neut you, all they have to do is orbit uner web at over 600m/s and put the misery on you with the largest short range weapon system while you're spining around and miserably die.

Hybrids and gallente overall is an excellent concept, almost perfect, just nerfed by traumatised souls and drunken people to the point their single existence in game is pointless and an insult to intelligence.
Zhephell
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#525 - 2011-11-15 13:02:06 UTC
Hi, I see that new t3 battle cruisers are really easy to fit. The only one that has some difficulty to fit is the Naga, but compared to other ships specially battle ships those ships have a lot of power ( 95% reduction at bs guns has as result guns that need less power that cruiser guns, and t3 bc power is similar as t2 battle cruisers)
Tornado and oracle are really easy to fit, as easy that I can see this in some forums:

(((
[Oracle, armour]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

41km optimal, 450dps with scorch, 650dps with conflag, 70k EHP.




[Tornado, loool]
Reactor Control Unit II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


900dps with Hail, 800 with RF EMP, 600 with barrage and 75km fall off.... @ 4.3km/s - Yes, it's 29 seconds of align time but you accelerate to 1.5kms faster than you do if you only had a 10mn MWD so v0v. )))

An Oracle with 70k EHP !! That is more that many t2 bc that are supposed to have more ehp, and this oracle has mwd. Harbis and prophecy = trash compared with this oracle
I have seen at you tube a video at the sisi server which had an oracle with 8 mega beam lasers, with active tank, afterburner, and cap booster and with any module to increase power ,
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq-DrWnP--8

There is any amarr bs that can use 8 mega beams with any power control system , reactor control units or any Ancillary Current Router. And many times they need 2

And the tornado can use a BS MWD and have all his guns !!! wtf is this?
I know that now it has 5% of falloff bonus and no more 10% so it isn t as difficult to kill, but T3 battle cruisers are really fast and very easy to fit, some ships as ACs tempest or ACs Maelstrom are worst that some tornados (why? Very simple, is your ship can be hunted because it is faster that the other ships, it has more chances to survive that a Maelstrom, and ll be cheaper.)

I hope that you have already noticed those things at sisi server
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#526 - 2011-11-15 14:13:09 UTC
Zhephell wrote:
Hi, I see that new t3 battle cruisers are really easy to fit. The only one that has some difficulty to fit is the Naga, but compared to other ships specially battle ships those ships have a lot of power ( 95% reduction at bs guns has as result guns that need less power that cruiser guns, and t3 bc power is similar as t2 battle cruisers)
Tornado and oracle are really easy to fit, as easy that I can see this in some forums:

(((
[Oracle, armour]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

41km optimal, 450dps with scorch, 650dps with conflag, 70k EHP.




[Tornado, loool]
Reactor Control Unit II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


900dps with Hail, 800 with RF EMP, 600 with barrage and 75km fall off.... @ 4.3km/s - Yes, it's 29 seconds of align time but you accelerate to 1.5kms faster than you do if you only had a 10mn MWD so v0v. )))

An Oracle with 70k EHP !! That is more that many t2 bc that are supposed to have more ehp, and this oracle has mwd. Harbis and prophecy = trash compared with this oracle
I have seen at you tube a video at the sisi server which had an oracle with 8 mega beam lasers, with active tank, afterburner, and cap booster and with any module to increase power ,
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq-DrWnP--8

There is any amarr bs that can use 8 mega beams with any power control system , reactor control units or any Ancillary Current Router. And many times they need 2

And the tornado can use a BS MWD and have all his guns !!! wtf is this?
I know that now it has 5% of falloff bonus and no more 10% so it isn t as difficult to kill, but T3 battle cruisers are really fast and very easy to fit, some ships as ACs tempest or ACs Maelstrom are worst that some tornados (why? Very simple, is your ship can be hunted because it is faster that the other ships, it has more chances to survive that a Maelstrom, and ll be cheaper.)

I hope that you have already noticed those things at sisi server



Well the only way to get some dps from talos is to shield fit it, then you have 17k ehp, has you can see these numbers are far from 70k EHP of your oracle, and far away from it's engagement range/dmg application, but once in range this shield fit will OC own your oracle by high margin (1 TE 4 MFS in lows)
Jake McCord
Greater Metropolis Sanitation Service
#527 - 2011-11-15 15:49:52 UTC
At last, a Battlecruiser that is actually a battlecruiser.

For those who don't read history, (as well as those who don't read at all) 20th Century BCs carried guns as big as battleships. The major difference, they didn't have the armor protection that battleships had. But they had another advantage, speed. The idea of the battlecruiser, it was supposed to be able to run away from any thing it couldn't beat, and kill every thing else.

The one thing that always bugged me about EVE, was calling the Hurricane and others like her, a battlecruiser, when she had guns no bigger than what you'd find on a Ruppy. Maybe should have called the tier 1 and 2 BCs heavy cruisers instead.

Ok, I'm done now. Smile

They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! Did I mention, I used to live in Chicago?

Stoney Balboa
Delsu Foundation
#528 - 2011-12-02 16:43:28 UTC

Imho, the Tornado is slightly UP.
It does have a great speed and range, but the dps is really too low compared to the other BCs.
Talos, 1100 dps, balanced.
Oracle, 1000 dps, balanced.
Naga, 1000 dps, balanced.
Torndado, 780 dps, kinda balanced (not easy to fit 2 gyros in 4 low slots - where u also want DC, TE and nano)
Its dps should be uped by 10%, that would be fair i guess.

what ya think?...