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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#121 - 2013-05-17 19:22:47 UTC
Why is anyone going to have to get rid of them? They're still DPS monsters, they're just no longer leaps and bounds better than the rest... It's far from useless even after these changes. It shows that you haven't done the maths...
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#122 - 2013-05-17 19:23:34 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Kacer Xenro wrote:
Oh great, i just finished Siege 5 for a moros.

Now crosstraining into amarr


While I'm guessing thats somewhat in jest - theres a fair point in there - Eve has always been about playing the long game and far too many changes recently have made a big difference to things people will have spent time working and planning towards. Eventually people may become reluctant to invest too much in working towards a long term goal in Eve (and possibly lose interest in the game) wary of arbitary changes making all their efforts a waste of time before or shortly after getting there. To a certain extent its unavoidable but its something that seems to have been forgotten a little too much of late.
This is actually a pretty salient point, considering that it's not possible to "respec" or grind up the necessary new skills given constant change. However, as is the case with any flavor-of-the-month system, you should always train for what playstyle you enjoy, and then you can enjoy it while you're playing instead of always wishing you had trained for X because it was the FOTM. I will echo some similar complaints, however, that the game is feeling very homogeneous lately, and I think the risk there is that many ships will turn out being very vanilla with a mix of middlesome stats while not truly excelling at anything.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#123 - 2013-05-17 19:26:24 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Kacer Xenro wrote:
Oh great, i just finished Siege 5 for a moros.

Now crosstraining into amarr


While I'm guessing thats somewhat in jest - theres a fair point in there - Eve has always been about playing the long game and far too many changes recently have made a big difference to things people will have spent time working and planning towards. Eventually people may become reluctant to invest too much in working towards a long term goal in Eve (and possibly lose interest in the game) wary of arbitary changes making all their efforts a waste of time before or shortly after getting there. To a certain extent its unavoidable but its something that seems to have been forgotten a little too much of late.
This is actually a pretty salient point, considering that it's not possible to "respec" or grind up the necessary new skills given constant change. However, as is the case with any flavor-of-the-month system, you should always train for what playstyle you enjoy, and then you can enjoy it while you're playing instead of always wishing you had trained for X because it was the FOTM. I will echo some similar complaints, however, that the game is feeling very homogeneous lately, and I think the risk there is that many ships will turn out being very vanilla with a mix of middlesome stats while not truly excelling at anything.


I'm going to counter this argument of homogeneity: it feels to me that the Caracal, Moa, Omen, and Arbitrator are all very different ships. The variety is still there, and the question is whether Eve would be better off with only four cruisers instead of all the ones we actually have. I'd say we're better off with the ships that are middlesome without excelling than not having them at all.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#124 - 2013-05-17 19:26:31 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
RIFT TORPEDO EXPLOSION VELOCITY: 20m/s WITHOUT SIEGE MODULE PENALTY

AEON VELOCITY: 60m/s

CAN YOU SEE THE PROBLEM?



Signature 11870 m
Explosion radius 1500 m

No, I can't see the problem. Roll

At least, the problem isn't application to supercarriers. It's the ****** DPS from citadel missiles in the first place, together with the stupid kinetic-only bonus that can be trivially refitted against.

As it is, these changes alter nothing. Moros is still the best, Phoenix is still worthless.
Cari Cullejen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-05-17 19:27:28 UTC
Madlof Chev wrote:
Anyone want a gallente dreadnought skillbook?


yes please

What are you looking for here? Read the post!
Las Minna
ATHANOR AQUISISTIONS
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#126 - 2013-05-17 19:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Las Minna
WTF! U ****** up suppers. so ppl who get suppers dont have much to do with them beside structure shooting. Isnt so that ppl who get suppers stop playing or just let them rot?
Now u try to make some dreads useless. OMG this game is only for newbs. And im gonna f... off from this game soon.
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#127 - 2013-05-17 19:27:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


If you are the "balance officer" how can you say this? P
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#128 - 2013-05-17 19:28:43 UTC
BLASTER WILL END UP WITH LESS OPTIMAL AND LESS FALLOFF OF AUTOCANNON
so u need to nerf also small, medium and large blaster to bring them in line.
Hybrid was great years ago, after become **** ( medium rail are still ****), after boost the come back in use and now let's nerf again f-uck you
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2013-05-17 19:33:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal


Most evil update ever!

I see your hidden message CCP!
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2013-05-17 19:34:08 UTC
Seems like you were going to nerf tracing enhancers at the same time, did you keep that in mind when thought of these changes? Cos 2 nerfs at the same time, isn't it too much?
Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
#131 - 2013-05-17 19:34:45 UTC
Can we now remove the "does less damage"-Role "Bonus" from Titans?
This seems quite outdated after increasing the weapon signatura resolution of XL-Weapons.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#132 - 2013-05-17 19:35:10 UTC
Could we get a boost on the HP of Citadel Missiles?

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Demolishar
United Aggression
#133 - 2013-05-17 19:35:44 UTC
Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#134 - 2013-05-17 19:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Grarr Dexx
Giullare wrote:
BLASTER WILL END UP WITH LESS OPTIMAL AND LESS FALLOFF OF AUTOCANNON
so u need to nerf also small, medium and large blaster to bring them in line.
Hybrid was great years ago, after become **** ( medium rail are still ****), after boost the come back in use and now let's nerf again f-uck you


Less optimal, more falloff on hybrids. Autocannons are only losing some tracking, no falloff.

XL Blasters were out of line anyways.

Neutron Blaster Cannon II with faction AM: 4.500 + 12.500
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 18.750 + 18.750
New Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 8.750 + 28.750 (approx)

They were out of line in the first place. This change will make them actual blasters again, instead of pulse lasers with autocannon falloff.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-05-17 19:38:44 UTC
Quick guess would be the Moros' effective damage vs a battleship being near half after the ammo chance and the tracking loss but that's still a fair bit better than the Revelation.

That's just because the rev has a stupid second bonus. Cap bonus \o/
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#136 - 2013-05-17 19:39:34 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?


What I heard here is that we want to nerf the optimal on autocannons... +1!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2013-05-17 19:41:33 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?

It makes sense , if you are a winmatar fanboy like Fozzie,if not yup it doesnt make any sense at all.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#138 - 2013-05-17 19:41:35 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?


What I heard here is that we want to nerf the optimal on autocannons... +1!

-Liang



I'm OK with that solution tbh.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#139 - 2013-05-17 19:42:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Kacer Xenro wrote:
Oh great, i just finished Siege 5 for a moros.

Now crosstraining into amarr


While I'm guessing thats somewhat in jest - theres a fair point in there - Eve has always been about playing the long game and far too many changes recently have made a big difference to things people will have spent time working and planning towards. Eventually people may become reluctant to invest too much in working towards a long term goal in Eve (and possibly lose interest in the game) wary of arbitary changes making all their efforts a waste of time before or shortly after getting there. To a certain extent its unavoidable but its something that seems to have been forgotten a little too much of late.
This is actually a pretty salient point, considering that it's not possible to "respec" or grind up the necessary new skills given constant change. However, as is the case with any flavor-of-the-month system, you should always train for what playstyle you enjoy, and then you can enjoy it while you're playing instead of always wishing you had trained for X because it was the FOTM. I will echo some similar complaints, however, that the game is feeling very homogeneous lately, and I think the risk there is that many ships will turn out being very vanilla with a mix of middlesome stats while not truly excelling at anything.


I'm going to counter this argument of homogeneity: it feels to me that the Caracal, Moa, Omen, and Arbitrator are all very different ships. The variety is still there, and the question is whether Eve would be better off with only four cruisers instead of all the ones we actually have. I'd say we're better off with the ships that are middlesome without excelling than not having them at all.

-Liang
I'd probably argue that different ships for the sake of having different ships that don't particularly excel at anything would be neither missed nor forgotten primarily due to people not flying them. I think the tiericide initiative has gone very far in making various previously-marginalized ships quite useful and appealing in today's Eve-O because they excel at certain tasks or within certain playstyles, all while not changing the sandbox-y nature of the game. One of the most appealing things about Eve--certainly the thing that has attracted me to it--is the ability to play how you want with some variability due to fitting choices.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#140 - 2013-05-17 19:42:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


Cool story, it was bad for years... remember when it couldn't reach reveleation dps even with drones (that u could lose?)

Naglfar = capless turret , damage selection
Revelation = no ammo waste (more space for fuel), good layout for armor tanking
Phoenix = good pos bash, worst by far for everything else (patch doesn't change this)
Moros = dps king, **** on his feet, use cap, use ammo

Now, if u nerf blaster moros will **** on his knees.
In addition u are nerfing also tracking enhancers....... why u try to broke something u fixed?