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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Sulvorati Kunoki
Sunstrike Enterprises
#1041 - 2013-05-16 16:19:04 UTC
We may have wanted the 8th probe back but not sure we really want to launch them all together as is now the case on SIsi. My ship is located in a wormhole so trying to find another probe suddenly out of thin air just to test the new system was fun. Thank you to a corp mate for supplying one!

There is an issue with the scan results window that seems to come about if you first scan a system with Combat probes and then recall them and scan with Core probes (or the other way around). The results window is not updating with the correct information - you still get ships on the results when using core probes for the second scan or you don't get ships if you use combats for the second scan. Also the ability to sort the results by column gets stuck and you can only sort by distance and ID.

On a positive, I've now got so used to resizing and moving all the probes at once without having to hold down shift or alt that probing on TQ now seems very tedious. So a +1 for that change at least.

Still very much missing the full DSP functionality.

Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
#1042 - 2013-05-16 17:11:25 UTC
Thank god and CCP the hacking mechanism is finally complete!The analyzers are now online! And now we don't need to worry about leaving probes behind! The digital white pad problem had fixed!
But there are still problems. Today I ran across many nullsec system to probe, and found out that all these data/relic site would not be erased from universe after someone finished them. Just before the DT I enter a system and probed out a relic site which was done by myself two hours ago.
And after the hacking mini game the jetting containers are very difficult to pick up. There are two different jetting directions and the containers are flying a little bit too fast, and the icon of containers are too small, which make them very hard to be double clicked on. Once I failed to click on it I would start to accelerate to another direction and fly away from the containers. I hope that maybe CCP can add the "recover" or "collect" options in the right click options on these small little containers.
There is one more thing. Even if I can pick up some of those containers, the loot of these containers are very unworthy. Indeed sometimes I could loot few worthy things like T2 BPC or blue salvage materials, but most of them are garbage such as data sheets, or metal scraps. These things make the relic/data sites become very unworthy. Certainly if we go to these sites with friends we may be able to pick up all the stuff but that also means solo hacking would be totally meaningless and I would dare to say that most of hackers are solo hackers. And we don't know what kinds of containers would give you something worthy so all we could do now is pick up all the containers as possible, but that's more like a draw. I believe most of us raise our analyzing skills for something solid and worthy, not a lottery.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#1043 - 2013-05-16 17:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Probing is now broken for me. The signals don't update in the Scanner. So its impossible to scan down any signatures.
Jumped one system further and no signatures show up at all in the scanner. Even tho the scanner overlay shows me 3 unidentified sites.

edit: worked again after docking and undocking
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#1044 - 2013-05-16 17:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Domanique Altares
Sulvorati Kunoki wrote:
We may have wanted the 8th probe back but not sure we really want to launch them all together as is now the case on SIsi.



Of course it's what we wanted, even if we didn't know it yet. Push buttan, vomit probes.

Honestly, I have all ideas that this has been done because it's now impossible for the launcher to actually discharge only one probe. The horrible workaround provided by CCP Devs in this thread makes me believe this very strongly.

'Launch them and get rid of the ones you don't need.'

I have a feeling that the launch operation of the probe launcher is now hard coded into the preset formation system, in such a fashion that they would have to create a new, separate 'Single Probe' preset in order to do it. Which would mean you'd need a two, three, four, etc. preset, all the way up to maximum, in order to launch less than a full load of probes. Hopefully this can be changed in the next two weeks, because if it is not, then it likely never will be.

This is what happens when the 'exploration focused' expansion revolves mainly around tiericide, radial menus, minigames, session change transitions, and a semi-annoying windshield wiper graphic effect. Lots of nice eyecandy, but the actual mechanic by which exploration is done seems to have taken a backseat, and this poorly researched, planned, and implemented job is what resulted. It could have been so much better, so much more user friendly. I hate to sound bitter, because it seems like the direction they wanted to go had promise, but the way they did it fell far short, and damaged current game play as a result. In the furor to make the system more accessible to beginners, they have gutted advanced features enjoyed by people that use the system to it fullest.

EVE is apparently supposed to be about doing it your way. I realize it means work for the systems team, but why is there no option for a 'Basic' and 'Advanced' system? For casual missioners and regular explorers who want to pick up a DED plex or two, or run hacking or arch sites quickly, let them use the Basic system. Lauch all, find your stuff, and go. For combat pilots, wormholers, and people who simply like to use the system to its fullest, let them select Advanced, and exert control over their own equipment. This was done with the highsec noob safety, and it should also be done with the probing system.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1045 - 2013-05-16 18:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
you say over lap is now working, NO ITS NOT if you change range from scanner window. they do not move.

Sitting in a hacking site deploy probes, scan, site not found!!!, centred on sun again. moved system see sites at 10% in overlay, scan at 64 au with combats, in fact after checking a couple of systems, making a new filter with everything selected, the sigs displayed in overlay will not reveal with probes, even at the same celestial that are within 4 au of. in fact its even more broken now. Have noticed that thee overlay is not updating distance with continuous scan and on-board scanner will not list results, but then looking at the system map its totally buggered, stuff all over the place, brackets bearing no relation to where they should be, jump gates 32 au from nearest celestial.



The new slowly revealed hack mini game is improved, but the background window has to be transparent, its like alt tabbing out of game at some resolutions



Is the reconnect to lost probes function defunct now they auto recall INSTANTLY on jump?

waste of time looking at probing in any real sense, its more broken than before, whoever authorised this to be included in the patch needs a good talking too and the testing procedure pre inclusion needs looking at.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1046 - 2013-05-16 18:21:12 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
The continuous "color bar filling" when you scroll down the scan list is cool - however, it doesn't remember the ones it has filled and as such if you keep scrolling up and down, up and down, it will keep filling up bars that have already been "loaded".
This gets really annoying with time when there's a lot of scrolling involved :/


Current bug with the window is scrolling lists, you will notice some duplication and stuff going on. Should be resolved by the next build.


That sounds great.
Are there plans to add timers, such as ~Countdown till scan finished~ and ~TIME TO LIVE~ on the probes?
Ginger Barbarella
#1047 - 2013-05-16 18:30:49 UTC
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

CCP Paradox
#1048 - 2013-05-16 18:50:19 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).


7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :)



(hint, you have 8 probes)

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Rengerel en Distel
#1049 - 2013-05-16 18:55:53 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).


7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :)



(hint, you have 8 probes)


Unless you only had < 8 probes on you, then you can't launch any.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#1050 - 2013-05-16 19:10:52 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).


7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :)



(hint, you have 8 probes)



seriously CCP Paradox, if you force the launch of 8 probes and they all move as one and resize as one, then why have 8 probes at all, just do all your new probing magic with one probe, because that is basically what you are building here, a one probe does all solution. (obviously I don't want this, i am just saying this is basically what you are building)

we continue to plea that you not destroy the current probing system (which no one was complaining about) with this new system. what i want to know is - is it even worth any of our time to even bother anymore? do you take any of the awesome posts in this thread that defend the current system into consideration at all? will you?

Sulvorati Kunoki
Sunstrike Enterprises
#1051 - 2013-05-16 19:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sulvorati Kunoki
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!"
2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...

Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration).


7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :)



(hint, you have 8 probes)



Paradox missing the point and being fairly rude to a paying customer to boot.

Not to mention SoniClover's 'Regarding removing the DSP – the DSP basically allowed people to quickly get a picture of everything in the system (including ships), in a kind of a “cheating” way as it didn’t really use the probe scan system' post. Cheating? Really?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1052 - 2013-05-16 20:21:08 UTC
So the T2 scanning modules now require the corresponding skill at level V – so much for the secondary skills now being useless LolI like it.

Also their effect was greatly reduced, the pinpointing module now grants -25% deviation instead of -40%. Probably reasonable.

.

Sulvorati Kunoki
Sunstrike Enterprises
#1053 - 2013-05-16 20:38:35 UTC

Is the reconnect to lost probes function defunct now they auto recall INSTANTLY on jump?


If you change ships in space and then go back again you can reconnect to probes. They don't instant recall in this instance.


A corp friend tells me that probes also don't instant recall if you jump from wormhole to wormhole with extra probes in the launcher. He didn't say whether you could reconnect to them though.

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#1054 - 2013-05-16 20:41:39 UTC
Any feedback on the magically reappearing probes thing? I skimmed the Dev posts and reread the OP but probes have still been possessed by magical powers allowing them to instantly teleport to the cargo hold.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1055 - 2013-05-16 21:16:06 UTC
CCP completely missed the point with the new 8-probe formations.

Players: "WTF CCP, why can't I scan with fewer than 7 probes? 4 probes is enough to scan down a WH, I should be able to use only 4 probes if I only have 4 so I'm not stuck in a system. I also liked being able to use 8 probes when I wanted."
CCP: "Okay, you can now only use 8 probes! :trollface:"

If for some reason I only have four probes on me, I should be allowed to use them.

Seriously, it was better before. The 8-probe "pinpoint" formation is an ugly mess and adds absolutely nothing over the previous 7 point formation. The "spread" formation at least no longer has giant gaps.

Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation.

The fix would've been simple: Make the launcher, if clicked on, drop only a single probe, up to a maximum of 8 probes in space.
Keep a 7-probe pinpoint formation button on the scan UI, and a 7- or 8- probe spread formation. Only launch probes into a formation if you click that button.
M'aak'han
C-7
#1056 - 2013-05-16 21:17:11 UTC
Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.
Space Wanderer
#1057 - 2013-05-16 21:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Wanderer
Ok, new changes on SISI tested. Many bugs fixed. Here is feedback.

Discovery Scanner

I am not sure I like the orange for anomalies and red for signatures. I think that green for anomalies was better, while having signatures ranging from light orange to deep red, according to the intensity of the signature.


Scanning interface

1) The list of results still needs a bit of work. Adjustable columns and font fitting.
2) Launching 8 probes is good. Being forced to launch 8 probes is bad.
3) We still need one or two customizable formations. Is it really so difficult? Honestly I thought it wasn't that hard.


Cosmic Signatures

While travelliing through highsec (about 20 systems) I could find very few signatures and NONE of them was lower than 7%. Before I could see several 1%. What gives?


Module balance

First of all, prerequisites for T2 modules is relative skill at 5. Good.

Now, about each module:
1) Only one acquisition module can be used. Min acquisition time (excpet for implants) is about 4.5 secs. Less than the 5 secs you can have now, but not much less. I think it could be considered balanced.
2) Pinpointing modules have been nerfed, but definitely not enough. I still can drop range from 8AU directly to 0.25 without losing contact. More balance is required.
3) Rangefinding modules suffer of stacking penalty not only between each other, but also with rigs and t2/sister launcher (but not with sister's probes), but offer a better bonus than them. It still seem possible to use them to find previously "unprobable" ships without needing virtue implants, although it seems a pretty close fit. (disclaimer: i couldn't test in this build if the cap has been removed/changed) This probably needs to be changed.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1058 - 2013-05-16 21:40:30 UTC
I just found a 1% sig in k-space so they are not gone.

Maybe we should have a slider for how many probes to launch, and if it is less than seven, the formations are not available, instead the launched probes will just sit all in one spot. (I assume it would be hard to make sensible formations for any possible number of probes launched.)

Personally I have no problem with the 8-or-nothing. Previously you were screwed if you only had 3 or less probes with you, now that number has changed to 8. No difference at all. Just bring always at least 20 probes, there is no reason at all to fly with less. Ever.

Chris Winter wrote:
Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation.

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.

.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#1059 - 2013-05-16 21:53:05 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.


Really. Who might they be?

I'll await your list of probing superstars.
Sulvorati Kunoki
Sunstrike Enterprises
#1060 - 2013-05-16 21:58:12 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
I just found a 1% sig in k-space so they are not gone.

Maybe we should have a slider for how many probes to launch, and if it is less than seven, the formations are not available, instead the launched probes will just sit all in one spot. (I assume it would be hard to make sensible formations for any possible number of probes launched.)

Personally I have no problem with the 8-or-nothing. Previously you were screwed if you only had 3 or less probes with you, now that number has changed to 8. No difference at all. Just bring always at least 20 probes, there is no reason at all to fly with less. Ever.

Chris Winter wrote:
Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation.

Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.




I have no problem scanning everything with 5 probes on TQ and I'm pretty f''ing hot at it due to practice over three or four years. I am talking about pve scanning in a wormhole here. The people who are using 8 probes are doing different pvp related things i imagine.

I have today experienced the suddenly having to use ONLY 8 probes when i only had 7 with me in wormhole space. If this goes live on TQ on Jun 4th then everyone in wormhole space needs to have 8 probes given to them or anyone with less is going to be insta-stuck!

If you can only launch a certain number (8 currently) then it is really a scan probe pack and you don't need individual probes at all - more so if they insta-recall and can't be destroyed.