These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#941 - 2013-05-14 18:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Haseo Antares
Edit: Nvm. I'm done.

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#942 - 2013-05-14 19:06:15 UTC
Haseo Antares wrote:
Edit: Nvm. I'm done.


Your worldly belongings - I can keep them safe?
M'aak'han
C-7
#943 - 2013-05-14 19:32:41 UTC
Capqu wrote:

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'm assume no, so props to you for admitting when you're wrong Smile


I made an image to better explain exactly what I'm talking about and to highlight just how bad it is for combat probing currently.

http://i.imgur.com/oV3NGe3.png



I wasn't. I was distracted when reading your first post, and this led to me missing this point.
Thanks for your commendation Smile

The new picture you made show things a lot more blatantly, I hope this will help the devs in acknowledging/addressing the issue.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#944 - 2013-05-14 20:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
They build put up today on sisi has a new problem with the signature results list .
The standard filter "show all" doesn't seem to work.
If you switch to cosmic anomalies you see anomalies but if you select "show all" again, nothing is found.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Fereval Kondur
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#945 - 2013-05-14 20:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Fereval Kondur
The new name of the sites are quite boring now.
Bring either the old nomenclature back or reconsider them in a more Internet-Spaceship Universe style please.

That's small details like that, that adds to the Universe consistency and credibility I think.

Vote for CSM 11!
M'aak'han
C-7
#946 - 2013-05-14 20:40:27 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
They build put up today on sisi has a new problem with the signature results list .
The standard filter "show all" doesn't seem to work.
If you switch to cosmic anomalies you see anomalies but if you select "show all" again, nothing is found.


Confirming this problem. IIRC the same thing happened while the current probing system was being tested.
A workaround is to create a new filter containing all the types available.
Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#947 - 2013-05-14 21:11:26 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Haseo Antares wrote:
Edit: Nvm. I'm done.


Your worldly belongings - I can keep them safe?


...I'm not gonna quit over these changes...I'd only quit if CCP implemented golden ammo or some MT like that. I meant I'm done ranting (before I say something against the rules lol). These scanning changes, though horrible in my eyes, are easily adaptable.

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#948 - 2013-05-14 21:15:05 UTC
The green bar starts over at 0 and animates back to 100 every time it shows up new on screen. For example, scrolling the list, you end up with lots of animating green bars, or when you flip back from the directional scanner tab. Rather annoying.

The list was totally fine before, imo--the new one makes it look like it was designed for children. It doesn't really increase ease-of-use at all for newer players and is just frustrating for older players.
Sicks
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#949 - 2013-05-14 21:23:55 UTC
Jivlain Pollard wrote:
Previously you could copy-paste signatures from the list in the scan window, and you could also sort signatures on any column - not just strength but also name. These were both rather useful when coordinating multiple scanners. You could, for example, copy out a complete list of signatures, put that in a shared document, and then easily find which signatures you were missing - if we're missing AUN-520, I could easily find AUN-520 in the ingame list by sorting alphabetically.

Now there seems rather impractical to coordinate multiple scanners. You can't copy-paste the list of signatures, and you can't isolate a particular signature by any means other than ignoring everything else. Can this functionality be restored?


This. Please leave scan results as highlightable, copiable, tables. It's super useful for wormhole mapping.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#950 - 2013-05-14 21:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
Firstly get the basics done : why do probes go to sun for initial probe when u drop them within 4au of the target, which as you know is so easy to do as the distance for any sig is within 4 au of a celestial body, it is bloody annoying.

also THE TIMER IS IMPORTANT FFS PUT IT BACK IN

also resizing should happen both on screen and in the scanner probe window when you do it no matter where you do it from, not when you push the scan button as that's a little bit late.

Also when changing formation mode PROBES SHOULD NOT RESIZE to some default value.

The Columns are still there so lets have them with the same functionality as the old code (is the code not compatible, do u have no one who can quickly convert old to new if its not?)

get rid of the warp button, the right click menu is universal in eve, keep it that way, that button will cause people grief.

for changes like single launch and custom saves you need extra buttons, reduce font size and reintroduce top button bar, we can argue what goes where later

when you get to the site kill the in space bracket, i.e. if on grid remove bracket from space

in the results reflect what is currently the case as to what is selected on results return, i.e the 100% hits, it allows the low lvl spam to be dealt with quickly and efficiently

having to constantly have the shift depressed to see and move individual probes is a pain, adding a button to make all probes moveable solo would help, not everyone one needs a cookie cutter formation, they really are only for people who don´t learn or have limited needs when using probes, set formations are not a gift they are a pain in many many circumstances.

AGAIN Stop centring the bloody probes on the sun on initial scan function, when you launch them they are by you, press scan and they disappear to the sun, wtf is with that?

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Arriaz
TxivYawg
#951 - 2013-05-14 23:09:02 UTC
The current system is not broken. There are some quality of life issues for sure but not broken. Why is there a complete overhaul then?

Based strictly on the feedback thus far it appears the SiSi builds are alphas; unpolished, barely functional prototypes. Why do you want to provoke so much anger?

It is apparent that who ever is in charge of this release needs project management skills as there is no over arching integration of the various "features". Instead it appears there are various groups building their own "feature" without knowing what the others are doing.

In short, it appears very little forethought went into what exploration is, what can be done to improve an already working system and that change for change sake is the order of the month (I refuse to believe a proper project plan was actually developed for this release). May I suggest selling off Dust so that CCP can refocus on what is currently paying the bills: EVE Online.

Remember, rightly or wrongly perception is truth.
ISquishWorms
#952 - 2013-05-14 23:14:09 UTC
Capqu wrote:
M'aak'han wrote:
Capqu wrote:

I think you'll find it didn't used to show distance at all, and they "fixed" it by making it show AU, so no, it isn't. Would be cool if you read through what I originally posted but I guess that's too much to ask.


Sorry, my bad. I actually missed this line in your post. You have a very valid point of concern that really needs fixing.


I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'm assume no, so props to you for admitting when you're wrong Smile


I made an image to better explain exactly what I'm talking about and to highlight just how bad it is for combat probing currently.

http://i.imgur.com/oV3NGe3.png



CCP listen to this player ^^ he gets it.

Or explain to us what we are missing and how these are improvements like you claim.

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#953 - 2013-05-15 00:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: FeralShadow
I'm unsure if this has been stated already or not, but..

I got a signature hit on my scan overlay. When trying to probe it out, I discovered that it doesn't exist, according to my probes. There were no sigs in the system.

How very strange....

Edit:

I figured out what was going on. Sig results aren't being shown when the filter is set on "Show All". They do display when the filter is on "Cosmic Signature"

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#954 - 2013-05-15 02:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for all the great feedback.

We’re writing a dev blog that talks a bit more in depth about many of the changes, but in the meantime I wanted to quickly address a few things:

Regarding removing the DSP – the DSP basically allowed people to quickly get a picture of everything in the system (including ships), in a kind of a “cheating” way as it didn’t really use the probe scan system (no triangulation or anything). This and the heavy overlap with the Sensor Overlay system made us decide to remove them. There are other ways to find/track ships in systems; apart from the D-Scan, there are also the combat probes, which really are there to do what the DSP just did better. I should mention that we’re adjusting the sweep formation to not have any gaps.

Regarding removing options – there has been some criticism that we’re removing some edge-case functionality in how some players probe scan. Basically what we’re doing is creating a streamlined method on how to probe scan, but players are not forced to use this method if they’re used to scanning differently. We’ve tried to maintain the old functionality, short-cuts, etc. as much as possible. But we’re not aiming to make every single method a streamlined version – basically, you can continue to use scan probes in different ways, but there is no guarantee that this is going to be easier/quicker than the streamlined version.

Regarding new names for sites, decryptors, modules – The main reason for us to change the names of the sites is that the terms (radar, gravimetric, etc.) are already being used elsewhere in the game, and having the same terms over two quite different systems is really confusing. So we’re not changing them because we didn’t like them, but because they’re already in use. As for other name changes, we decided to go for names that offer a bit better clarity to their functionality – we always try to keep things thematic and cool, but it can’t be too much at the expense of playability. In these cases we felt it was better to tone down a bit on the thematic names.

Keep the good comments coming, the dev blog should be out late this week or early next week.


Why don't you go and look at the thread on DSP removal in features and ideas to get an idea of why this is some bs. It's not cheating, where's the threads complaining about DSP's being too effective? There isn't any. DSP's allow people who learn how to use them to save time, catch people who don't pay attention and probe people in deep safes far more effectively (to name a few).

Your assumption that your stupid visual overlay is a substitute is just re.tarded (A word from the Oxford dictionary is now spam?). Tables make information easy to take in, I want a table thanks. I also didn't train Astrometrics V for the fun of it.

You removed them without player consultation, you don't respond the thread on the the very subject, you just say "we thought it would be a great, eat it", well where does this kind of thing get you? Look to your past.

1000 dislikes.

It also appears you just made the gaps between scan results larger for no reason? Distinguishing between results was never difficult, all you've done is make the scanner window now take up significantly more room. Oh and align the damn results the left, not centre.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#955 - 2013-05-15 03:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Faulx
I noticed you added a green 3 axis cross hair. While interesting, it still doesn't give a good idea of where the probes are relative to a given dot. You should take a page from the tactical overlay and have a line drop down (or up) from the dot to a circle in the plane of the probe.

*edit: ...aaand I just realized I'm looking at the green lines that connect the 7 probe formation.... Nevertheless, it would be very very nice if there was a "tactical overlay" type effect like the one I described above, to help align your probes to your dots.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#956 - 2013-05-15 03:49:15 UTC
Another issue:
In the "Scanner Window", in the field where the probes are located, it would be nice if the probes' sensor strength was displayed somewhere so users don't have to go into "Fittings > Show Charge Info", which is, frankly, very hard to find for newbies (and very annoying to find for vets).

*edit: The probe launcher tooltip would be another good place to find sensor strength.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#957 - 2013-05-15 05:03:26 UTC
Ok, I figured it out.
Lets just put a door on this new system and give us the option to keep using the old one.
I think that would be best.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
So'Cari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#958 - 2013-05-15 06:43:10 UTC
Came to leave feedback on the new UI and inability to copy-paste scan results but these four posts already cover my view:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3020484#post3020484

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3026075#post3026075

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3026251#post3026251

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3027437#post3027437

I've just dropped corp because I can't reliably dedicate several hours at a time scanning routes through w-space in search of a fight (#tears). When 'rage rolling' a static is preferred to exploring connected chains that's a good indication of how tedious exploration can be. Removal of DSPs, the new UI and inability to copy-paste to an external spreadsheet / mapping tool make things worse not better for w-space navigation (and clearly impact gameplay in many other areas as well).

+ 1 for putting a door over the new system if it can't be fixed in time for release (seriously, I think most EVE players prefer that a feature is slightly delayed but done properly).
Space Wanderer
#959 - 2013-05-15 06:47:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Wanderer
FeralShadow wrote:
I figured out what was going on. Sig results aren't being shown when the filter is set on "Show All". They do display when the filter is on "Cosmic Signature"


Yes, the "show all" filter seems to be bugged.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#960 - 2013-05-15 07:15:56 UTC
Again, i would like to remind team Superfriends that all the work they are doing to make this system work they better rewrite the total rookie Exploration tutorial before release so we can test on Sisi to see if they actually got it to make sense and is understandable and an incentive to invest SP in and play.


I feel really bad about having to mention this, but past experiences in how CCP have handled the rookie, getting into eve bit of new stuff is the one thing that drives players away.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....