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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Ravenstain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#481 - 2013-05-10 08:43:56 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
Anariasis wrote:
My little list:

- Launching 7 probes at once is fine. But only if you want to. I would like the option of launching 1 or 7 (or why not 8?)
- Give us back our Deep Space Probes! They are great! They cut down the time to scan for WH exits by A LOT. Not by the range only, but by the signature strength. As a game designer you should know that, but to clarify: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html?str=12.3&f=5&sec=3

AttentionAttention- Please stop making us all equally good/bad at this game. Currently you need to know how to use a DSP, make a good probing setup, launch probes out of d-scan range of the enemy etc.. After Odyssey we all just hit a button and then it's only skillpoints. Bah!AttentionAttention

- The spread probe formation is not overlapping, which is stupid. No one with an idea what he's doing is scanning like that. Just make them be overlapping right when you launch them.
- Alt+Shift to move probes together/further apart was not easy to discover. Also Alt+Shift happens to CHANGE KEYBOARD LAYOUT FROM GERMAN TO ENGLISH! HOLY ****, THAT'S ANNOYING! (Win8 64bit UK if that helps)
- If you set the screen to keep showing the sigs in space, the scanner continues to swirl around you as well - that drives you mad in about 2 minutes.
- Why do probes manage to instantly return when you leave system but take time when you recall them? That's just broken game mechanics. Also, if you happen to forget your probes and notice 10 jumps out etc., then you made a mistake and deserve to have lost them. This is EVE, not WoW.
- Sometimes it's nice to leave your probes behind, for example: you find a high/low/0.0-exit of your WH, jump in, have a look where it is, jump back , reconnect and continue scanning.

Great list, +1 to all items.


QFT!!
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#482 - 2013-05-10 08:46:34 UTC
Ravenstain wrote:
Rhavas wrote:
Anariasis wrote:
My little list:

- Launching 7 probes at once is fine. But only if you want to. I would like the option of launching 1 or 7 (or why not 8?)
- Give us back our Deep Space Probes! They are great! They cut down the time to scan for WH exits by A LOT. Not by the range only, but by the signature strength. As a game designer you should know that, but to clarify: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html?str=12.3&f=5&sec=3

AttentionAttention- Please stop making us all equally good/bad at this game. Currently you need to know how to use a DSP, make a good probing setup, launch probes out of d-scan range of the enemy etc.. After Odyssey we all just hit a button and then it's only skillpoints. Bah!AttentionAttention

- The spread probe formation is not overlapping, which is stupid. No one with an idea what he's doing is scanning like that. Just make them be overlapping right when you launch them.
- Alt+Shift to move probes together/further apart was not easy to discover. Also Alt+Shift happens to CHANGE KEYBOARD LAYOUT FROM GERMAN TO ENGLISH! HOLY ****, THAT'S ANNOYING! (Win8 64bit UK if that helps)
- If you set the screen to keep showing the sigs in space, the scanner continues to swirl around you as well - that drives you mad in about 2 minutes.
- Why do probes manage to instantly return when you leave system but take time when you recall them? That's just broken game mechanics. Also, if you happen to forget your probes and notice 10 jumps out etc., then you made a mistake and deserve to have lost them. This is EVE, not WoW.
- Sometimes it's nice to leave your probes behind, for example: you find a high/low/0.0-exit of your WH, jump in, have a look where it is, jump back , reconnect and continue scanning.

Great list, +1 to all items.


QFT!!


I took me some time to discover, but if you grab the edge of the range-shere of any probe (without MAJ, ALT, or anything), and make it grow or shrink, it adjusts the range AND the position of every probe.
So actually you don't need to hold down MAJ, hold down left clic on an arrow, release maj, hold down alt and move blindly.

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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#483 - 2013-05-10 09:01:04 UTC
LtauSTinpoWErs wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
LtauSTinpoWErs wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Hello future Odyssey capsuleers!



  • Reduced the per level modifier for Astrometrics Rangefinding, Astrometrics Acquisition and Astrometrics pinpointing by half.




What happens to those people that have already trained these skills? Will they get compensated some skill points back?

And in regards to the new modules, will this make the virtue implant set pointless? Right now, it is worth the money to scan down "unscannable t3s" (granted, there aren't many of them left).


There will be no compensation for those skill changes.

[...]
The new skill changes will make Astrometric Acquisition and Astrometric Pinpointing 2.5x, although I imagine this rounds up to 3x multiplier.
[...].



Would you please not confuse per level MODIFIERS and rank MULTIPLIERS ?

Your confusion is spreading to others already.


That said, the change IS somewhat infuriating because the reason for the change to the astrometics skill was, that the ONLY solution for a predefined formation was using 7 probes, thus obsoleting the old astrometics skill. Seriously guys, what's hard about saving 1-7 vector values (relative position of each additional probe towards the first probe launched) in a variable for each saved setup ?
Raxlaa
Steel Winters Stellar Enterprises
#484 - 2013-05-10 09:08:07 UTC
Akira Menoko wrote:
I tried out some probe scanning briefly and had a few issues:


  1. In the probe "spread" formation, there are some coverage gaps in between the probes. I'd love it if the default formation for the probes was brought in a bit so that even though there is some overlap in the probes, there is no gaps in the coverage.

  2. I tried using a relic analyzer in a magnetometric site and it didn't work, saying it couldn't be used on a spew container. But I could just open it like a regular can though.


I definitely, without a doubt, would love to see the spread formation not have any coverage gaps in it. The pinpoint formation looks great and I rather like it.



gaps in the spread formation; two thoughts. select all your probes in the list and r-click set-range to 32AU before scan? or, drag resize your probes so they overlap and then scan?

So, you could grab a fast scan with the small possibilty that some ships are sat in the 'gaps', (would be a nice place to try and get bookmarks), or with 2 seconds delay for the resizing, you can grab a scan that covers all the gaps.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#485 - 2013-05-10 09:10:49 UTC
Two step wrote:
CSM was not consulted about these changes.
This is the single most horrible thing in the whole threadnaught. Why on earth werent our CSM representatives consulted about these scanning changes? Isnt that exactly what they are for?

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Space Wanderer
#486 - 2013-05-10 09:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Wanderer
TL;DR: I usually try to be very balanced when expressing opinions, and I am posting this after I actually tested most of the stuff, but this time my overall opinion of the changes is: are you out of your silly mind?!?

Ok, now for some more balanced and lengthy feedback:

The good

  • While removal of DSPs may seem as a problem, some people may have not noticed that the target signature size is displayed in the Discovery scanner. Basically the discovery scanner acts as a single DSP for sites. Sorry St. Mio, you are not off the hook yet. :)
  • Improvements to UI are good (including formations).

And this is about all the good things I can say...


The bad (here things get hairy....)

  • 8 probes.... How could you even conceive to remove them when they make the difference between scanning a single spot and scanning two??? If this is not dumbing down scanning and removing player skill from it I don't know what is... Cry
  • The new scanning modules. Not much to say about the acquisition and strength modules for the moment, but about the pinpointing modules, again... what were you thinking?!? With full skills you already could (and still can, actually even better) already skip from 1 AU to 0.25AU without losing the signal. Now, with the T2 modules that reduce deviation by 40% each (!!!) and full skills, I am fairly confident that with two of such modules you could skip from 4AU to 0.25AU without losing the contact in most cases (this assumes that the stacking penalty of those modules act like the stacking penalty of any other module). As soon as I manage to craft some t2 version i'll test it first hand, but their stats speak very clearly. I don't know where do you get the courage to say you are not dumbing down the system...
  • The minigame of the relic site (don't know about the data) seem to be heavily bugged. I find a datacore, but when clicking on it everything blocks and I am unable to do anything from there, any further click on the minigame simply won't have any effect and I willbe forced toclose the minigame window.
  • I found no way to: (1) decide the default formation when launching probes; (2) save my own formations; (3) decide the default number of probes to be launched when I click on the probe launcher. Perhaps just wasn't able to find the proper commands, but if those options are not available we really have (another) problem....


Observations

  • Site signatures sizes have been changed, at least some of them. Some of them are certainly smaller than they used to be. I am pretty sure that I found a 1 (it was a relic site), while the smallest that were around before were a 1.25.
  • All the above info rely on the assumption that the scanning formula is not changed. From some preliminary observations it seems it has not changed but I'll make sure of it this evening.
  • I am not saying whether the virtue implants have been made useless or not until I am able to test whether the cap on ship signature size has been removed or not.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#487 - 2013-05-10 09:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Space Wanderer wrote:
Basically the discovery scanner acts as a single DSP for sites.



yes, but NOT FOR PVP
MrSnooze
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#488 - 2013-05-10 09:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: MrSnooze
sorry ccp but those changes are nice when you read it first but trying them hurts a lot. (not to forget facepalming)

it just took me 5 times longer to hunt down a sig on sisi than it takes me on singularity right now.
the issue with pinpoint formation is nice but !!! why do i have to do a scan in the disred deviation before i can set them to pinpoint again. just add the alt funktion or make them pinpoint automatically when i reduce scan range but right now i have to do 8 au scan ... reposition probes, hit scan then scale them down and hit scan again ... so it takes mit at least 2 -3 times longer than before when i just moved them at the red dot scaled them down with alt and hit scan ..... there is no improvement at all in those changes so far regarding scanning down a system (0.0 or wspace ones).


edit: and please add a graphic option to deactivate the background of the overlay. nothing against showing those sigs or anoms (its acutually a nice idea with some needed tweaks) but 4 hours of that overlay gonna make me destroy something.

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Anthar Thebess
#489 - 2013-05-10 09:56:04 UTC
Don't auto recall probes.
Sometimes the best way to catch somebody is to leave your probes in formation far outside system ...
and log off or jump to another system

Wait a while, login/return , reconnect to probes and scan.

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St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#490 - 2013-05-10 10:01:07 UTC
Space Wanderer wrote:
Sorry St. Mio, you are not off the hook yet. :)

>:(
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#491 - 2013-05-10 10:06:31 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Don't auto recall probes.
Sometimes the best way to catch somebody is to leave your probes in formation far outside system ...
and log off or jump to another system

Wait a while, login/return , reconnect to probes and scan.


This, why on earth should they auto return to the bay, there is even a popup dialog warning if you leave them behind. People leave them behind on purpose for various reasons.

.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#492 - 2013-05-10 10:11:55 UTC
Roime wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Don't auto recall probes.
Sometimes the best way to catch somebody is to leave your probes in formation far outside system ...
and log off or jump to another system

Wait a while, login/return , reconnect to probes and scan.


This, why on earth should they auto return to the bay, there is even a popup dialog warning if you leave them behind. People leave them behind on purpose for various reasons.

+1000
Morpho Aurora
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#493 - 2013-05-10 10:29:51 UTC
In halving the SP of exploration skills, presumably people that have already committed to those skills will see their SP refunded and not just get the shaft?
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#494 - 2013-05-10 10:35:13 UTC
The Ruined Guristas Temple Site (Relic) seems to be bugged - you can probe it down, but when you warp to the hit, you land in empty space with no dungeon or loot cans. At the moment, there are two of these seemingly-defective sites in L-TS8S in Pure Blind.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#495 - 2013-05-10 10:35:40 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Two step wrote:
CSM was not consulted about these changes.
This is the single most horrible thing in the whole threadnaught. Why on earth werent our CSM representatives consulted about these scanning changes? Isnt that exactly what they are for?


Because the CSM has been and will always be a non factor when it comes to development choices.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#496 - 2013-05-10 10:40:07 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Octoven wrote:

No...but I don't want to spend valuable skill time to train lvl 5 in everything in order to scan anything half decently either.



You don't need level 5 to scan anything decently. That's possible because I learned about probe placement and how to read my scans by actually working at learning how to do it.

The way things are now on SISI I could probably scan out a COSMOS drug site with a noob character.

Things are not looking better if all I need to do is press a button and 7 probes pop out in optimal arrangement and just drag it over to the sig.

The earlier comments about making it a single sphere makes a lot of sense if we're going this way.


Yeah well the problem with the way it is now is unless you KNOW how to do it...you have to go look up external sources on HOW to do it and that is not how a game should function. You shouldnt need to read a whole web page or watch a 20 minute video to learn how to use such a basic function of the game. If that means making scanning a bit easier so you don't need this rediculous process then so be it.


Actually as the changes stand, you will never learn how to place probes. It is already done for you. Eve is a complex game, so sometimes you do need to seek outside resources (corp mates, web sites, wiki, etc.) to understand things. It was an aspect of the game I was interested in so I developed my skills in exploration. That makes me a damn good prober, but not as good at PvP.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2013-05-10 10:45:47 UTC
Morpho Aurora wrote:
In halving the SP of exploration skills, presumably people that have already committed to those skills will see their SP refunded and not just get the shaft?


What are you talking about?
Garan Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#498 - 2013-05-10 10:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Garan Nardieu
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Two step wrote:
CSM was not consulted about these changes.
This is the single most horrible thing in the whole threadnaught. Why on earth werent our CSM representatives consulted about these scanning changes? Isnt that exactly what they are for?


Because the CSM has been and will always be a non factor when it comes to development choices.

I find it interesting that a CSM member read about some of the changes to be implemented on TMC.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#499 - 2013-05-10 10:58:25 UTC
removing distance from scan results can't be intentional? how the hell are you supposed to combat probe effectively in fleets now?

i hate all these changes, just dumbing down the game. look how well that worked for other mmos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
ghost100 Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#500 - 2013-05-10 11:09:41 UTC
i only just started testing the new scanning screen but the first thing i found is that once you scan a sig to 100% and you put the probes back at long range the 100% signal is back down

in the old system once you got a 100% signal it stayed at 100% in the list

is that something that is planned to change ? as the old system is rather useful :)