These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Innabiggahurry
Doomheim
#401 - 2013-05-09 21:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Innabiggahurry
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Innabiggahurry wrote:

Think first, post second. And to think you did it for a post that already said that. Well, I guess that isn't surprising, since you don't seem to be doing ANY reading.


You're missing my point. I could give a crap about a worthless 5% change. I didn't train Astrometrics 5 for the bonuses. I trained it for the extra probe and ability to use DSP.

I'm not looking for SP either.

It's you who aren't getting the point. But since you aren't looking for an actual explanation, just a place to whine, I'll leave you to it.

edit: i have to ask, do you have any of the other probe skills trained to 5?
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#402 - 2013-05-09 21:14:17 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:



Is this a "whaaaa, you removed my exploit" post?

I'm pretty sure CCP never intended that the DSP's signal strength be a short-cut to knowing exactly what a sig is without actually scanning it down.


No doubt DSPs are not how CCP intended them to be used. And it wasnt an exploit or we'd all be banned and they would have removed them long ago.


You also cannot tell what a signature is. Only what it isnt with a DSP.

As i said, i kind of understand why they removed them as its not their intended function, but its become a huge feature so some middle ground would be nice rather than just outright eliminating it.


So now i've realized you can contract and shrink the entire probe formation in one click of a button, AND deploy in formation and move all at once with one click. It makes me kind of wonder why you bother putting scanning in at all. Might as well just make them all anoms its that easy :/


I guess despite being initially annoyed about DSPs, they're not really quite so necessary because pinning an entire system takes about 8 seconds....
Fereval Kondur
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#403 - 2013-05-09 21:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fereval Kondur
@NyxSTeeLGamerS
Scanning feedback frm sisi: scan results dont stay 100% scanned if you move probes & rescan. very annoying. plz fix #tweetfleet

@CCP_Paradox
that is a bug and will be fixed.



I'm also heavily concerned by these changes.

Vote for CSM 11!
Fereval Kondur
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#404 - 2013-05-09 21:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fereval Kondur
-double post sorry-

Vote for CSM 11!
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#405 - 2013-05-09 21:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aloe Cloveris
Is it going to be possible to probe out off-grid boosting links without billions of isk worth of Virtues? Why don't you go ahead and ensure this happens for the betterment of the game as a whole.

That would be fantastic. Thanks in advance!

e: I can see inadvertently making it actually more difficult to probe them out because things like this happen when major game changes are rammed through without taking all things into consideration. It is a mechanic you should ensure doesn't break when it goes live, imo
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#406 - 2013-05-09 21:35:41 UTC
likes: 10
pages of criticism: 20

something to be considered...
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#407 - 2013-05-09 21:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)

You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.

So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#408 - 2013-05-09 21:41:27 UTC
Terrible changes that ruin exploration and scouting, and devalue both player and character skills.

Literally only positive thing is the celestial bracket fix.

.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#409 - 2013-05-09 21:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
Finally got the probing to work after a couple of tries. Honest opinion is that it felt clumsy, compaired to the refinement of the old system. I like being able to lauch multiple probes, and I love the ability of preset formations, but the way its put together is.....clumsy. Give me a dial or slider to select how may probes to launch. Then let me select and apply some preset formation. Refine the whole system, make it a skill to use again.

Additionaly, one thing that was seriously useful and is now missing is the thin blue circles in the scan bubble that marked the half and then quater ranges of the current range. These were VERY useful and I would like them back.

Take it apart, have another go, give it to someone else to pass their eye over. Its currently too unfinished for even testing on Sisi.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#410 - 2013-05-09 21:51:53 UTC
Instead of "looking around in space" to find sigs, see what you think of this:

Faulx wrote:
Please look at this well crafted and elegantly linked example of how you should "get away from spreadsheets in space."

...

Use a good ol' fashion 2D map.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#411 - 2013-05-09 21:56:28 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)

You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.

So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies.


Very true. Already noted most of the patterns. The primary annoyance as far as I can tell is that the only way now is to scan around in space, hover over the sig, and manually note the strength. No listed result anywhere else.

As far as the scanning goes. The up changes will take getting used to but it's not the worst. Losing my 8 probe configurations are very frustrating.
Andrea Griffin
#412 - 2013-05-09 21:58:04 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Relic sites will require the Relic Analyzer, so no Salvager.
Scripted versions are interesting, we will talk about it. But I think we might need to see how popular the modules become.
Personally I feel that a scripted version would be more popular than 3 separate modules
If the is a One True Module that can be scripted to do any of the 3 jobs, why have those 3 different modules at all and why have different sites?

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#413 - 2013-05-09 21:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bum Shadow
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)

You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.

So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies.


Very true. Already noted most of the patterns. The primary annoyance as far as I can tell is that the only way now is to scan around in space, hover over the sig, and manually note the strength. No listed result anywhere else.

As far as the scanning goes. The up changes will take getting used to but it's not the worst. Losing my 8 probe configurations are very frustrating.


To augment this id like to see:

It would be really nice if we could click the anom in space, and our camera would pan to it (like clicking anything else)


I'd like this so i can click and pan to an anom to fire off a focused Dscan burst. Manually lining up is fine but, camera panning is nicer :)


adding the results of the sensor sweep to the system scanner so we also have a "Spreadsheet" version for us mega spreadsheet nerds as well as the nice graphical interface in space would also be welcome.


I think this wouldnt be a ballance issue. It is simply presenting information in an additional method. One we are A) well accustomed to and B) easier to find and use than panning around in space looking for the icons.
Sekraf Reln
Perkone
Caldari State
#414 - 2013-05-09 21:59:56 UTC
one more voice for the anti 7 probes thing

also, if a signature happens to land exacly between you and a planet, you CANNOT select the planet in the game area. also, hovering the mouse over it doesn't show the list of stuffs near there.. this occurs even when the 'show scaner' thing is turned off. what hapens if you're in a fight and your friend/target you're trying to click on is between you and a sig? now i can't select the target in the game view.. can't even hover over it to identify it. it seems that the signatures on the 'game area' are on the top 'layer' which is all well and good.. keeps you able to select them even when there's something else in the area, but it STOPS you from selecting the other things in the area.. at least move those sig readings to the bottom layer when scanning results are turned off in the game window. thanks
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#415 - 2013-05-09 22:00:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)

You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.

So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies.


Very true. Already noted most of the patterns. The primary annoyance as far as I can tell is that the only way now is to scan around in space, hover over the sig, and manually note the strength. No listed result anywhere else.

As far as the scanning goes. The up changes will take getting used to but it's not the worst. Losing my 8 probe configurations are very frustrating.


Yes my thoughts pretty much exactly. Losing the 8 probes is a hit, along with having to move the camera around in space now to indentify the results is very annoying. But I guess I could get used to it so its not all bad.

It would be nice if they bought back 8 probes and made that the standard formation instead of 7.

But after playing round with it for a while it isn't as bad as I first anticipated. But still needs a bit of work though. I don't use probes for pvp much though so perhaps those guys will have a little more issue with these changes.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2013-05-09 22:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
I´ve been an explorer since my first weeks when i was idle at a planet and discovered the on-board scanner and went, "what does this do?". I the quickly acquired decent probing skills before the, as i saw it, dumbing down of exploration as i found it a challenging part of the EvE game play environment . I having maxxd exploration skills found the current system very easy to deal with, and quite profitable, which along with many who are currently on Sisi probably gives us a far better perspective on the new set of upcoming changes than team super-friends.


So i have spent about an hour on the very basics as its agood place to start and this is what i noted as i went along:

Good God, WTF drug was Soundwave on when he came up with this piece of .... its candy for the unthinking masses that play wow or tablet games. its too easy in one sense (use spread to find a red ring or dot, centre and formation it then scan at 0,5au, equals instant hit in high sec (oh more site description, you either have to make the window so large u can´t see the system map or save location to find out wtf it is at present, make the columns size adjustable)), its not a game any more, its instant gratification on par with an act of self abuse when all is said and done.

Multiple probe launch, wtf, if you don't have enough probes in launcher sod all happen, and WHY NO TIMER???????, and a sister launcher for only 7 probes!!.

Whoever designed probe (spread) launch layout is a tool (and why do they go to the sun for centering and not stay with the launching ship), they should all overlap at every range setting, did the team design lead actually try probing in the past?. The pinpoint formation is good and the spread formation should be same pattern but allowing coverage with centre probe range giving distance to outlying probe placement. Also range at the moment is not set when adjusted but when scanning takes place, this is very confusing and should have been noticed before it went to duality let alone sisi.

The colour signal strength bar and the sensor overlay are nice graphical touches, (but they actually add nothing to the game, shiny over substance again). Also noted that sensor overlay (which by rigths should be LINKED TO JUST THE ON-BOARD SCANNER) displays on screen the presence of probe only findable sites but they are not present in the scanner window result window, who didn´t work out that its a basic design flaw, its either the built in on-board scanner or its a fitted module, otherwise what is the function of the on-board scanner apart from NONE.


i found a Regional Sansha Data Fortress in an 0.4 system and could not get within 10Km of the Sansha hacking sites in it (also all 3 hacking sites all on top of one another!!!) so someone not setting up sites properly, or even testing them for useability.

more on other aspects to follow.

A quick edit addition on the current launch mechanics:

The new system is great for the Rookie tutorial, its idiot proof, plain and simple (made to be used by the people who thought it up basically), but it should not be the default setting, to do so insults the intelligence of the player base, its a great tool but it lacks the instant flexibility of the current system of you controlling the probe numbers and placing wherever you require them (at planets with 4/8au range in vast systems), why do i have to recover probes if i only need 1 or 2 for a targeted look?, and hold shift down to do something outside the very limited function of the new default system'.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Jenn Rose
Doomheim
#417 - 2013-05-09 22:07:48 UTC
I hate you Paradox and not going to read the past 21 pages of hurr durr for other replies. I have used DSP's daily for the past 3 years and you will be changing my game play considerably.

Nothing I see in your post encourages better exploration, which is much needed, but continues to nerf it even further. If CCP does not like exploration, just remove it from the game altogether. Do not keep ******* us year after year.
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#418 - 2013-05-09 22:11:04 UTC
Jenn Rose wrote:
I hate you Paradox and not going to read the past 21 pages of hurr durr for other replies. I have used DSP's daily for the past 3 years and you will be changing my game play considerably.

Nothing I see in your post encourages better exploration, which is much needed, but continues to nerf it even further. If CCP does not like exploration, just remove it from the game altogether. Do not keep ******* us year after year.


I feel your pain. But take the time to read just page 21 and you'll notice a few people have found that the DSP functions remain. Just in a new form :) Different in presentation but similar in function.
Urban Trucker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#419 - 2013-05-09 22:12:18 UTC
I somewhat disagree with the removal of the Deep Space Probe.

If you don't want us using spreadsheets with Deep Space Probe.. JUST Make the damn probe show us what anom each sig is.

Drop a DSP, hit scan, all the sigs show up, with the type of anom it is (gravimetric, ladar, anomily, wormhole, etc).

Removes the whole "use a website spreadsheet and figure it out" to "Here is a list of the signatures the probe found, launch others?"

You might as well keep the DSP in the game, and add the type of signature into the DSP ability skill (Just show it already).

I am for sale (Fenrir Freighter Pilot, 1.4 mil skillpoints, cheap)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2982440#post2982440
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#420 - 2013-05-09 22:14:49 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Most of what I wanted to say on this has already been said by older and more experienced probers, but I'll repeat the main points just in case.

-8th probe. Please, it is the basis of many probing patterns that whoever devised these changes seems to be unaware of. You are removing a mechanic that is used by players a lot; why?

-DSPs. If you (CCP) think people use these to actually scan down sites and they can now be removed, you don't know anything about probing. They are useful in manners that the devs never envisioned and removing them will destroy some very nice mechanics that people came up with: overwatch, single probe checking, signature classification and many other things will become much harder now. Again, you are removing a useful item; why?


Also, it seems that in the name of making exploration more accessible you are indeed dumbing it down. Want to make it better and more fun for all involved? Hare is a list of changes that would be loved by most pilots, because they ADD to the game, instead of removing things we all use and even like:

-D-Scan: update the UI, it is stuck in the Pre-Cambrian era now. If the overview works in AUs, then why does the dscan work in kms? Why do I have to enter a number instead of having a slider between min and max range? This thing is an obvious target for a rework that will be loved by all.

-Probing interface: while the work done on it is nice, and it looks prettier, what it should be is more usable, not fancier. Copy-pastable list of results, 100% results staying between scanning sessions and/or jumps out of system and the like would make probing easier without turning it into "press A, press B, win!"

-Randomness: interference, both natural and player generated, has been suggested. Dare I suggest a system upgrade that makes all sigs harder to lock down? Or phenomena that would make signatures more difficult to find? I heard something about making illumination in a system dependant on distance to the star; how about making ships closer to the star harder to probe, because of all the electromagnetic radiation in their area?

-Counter-scanning: a ship communicating with probes should be vulnerable, because it's not isolated from the outside. When you cloak you lose your drones but not your probes, which is a bit weird. A mechanic that would make a probing ship scannable (even if it would have a VERY low sig strength, say 0.01 base) would be lovely, and would add interaction to the game.

-2nd probe launcher: just because I'm greedy and want to have a launcher filled with DSPs and another one with Core. I don't like realoading, as you can see.


In the end it boils down to adding features, not removing them in the name of simplicity. Sure, improve the UI, redo the mini-profession sites, give us an option to launch probes in formation. All that is nice, but removing things that are used just because the entry-level prober can't use them is a bad idea. Astrometrics V is a skill that puts serious scanners apart from casual ones without harming anyone; you don't need it to probe, but if you probe a lot, then it's worth the time. You are turning it into a pretty meaningless goal with these changes.


^This!
Aivlis nailed it in so many levels she deserves a medal, but the main point is: add features, do not remove them to make things simpler.