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An analysis of nullsec mining changes in Odyssey

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Kelmurdoch
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#181 - 2013-06-03 19:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelmurdoch
Has anyone else read the patch notes with a raised eyebrow?
Quote:

The composition of these anomalies will be as follows:

Highsec

2500 units of standard racial ice.

Lowsec

3000 units of standard racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.

Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5)

3000 units of improved racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.
500 units of Dak Glitter.
200 units of Gelidus.

Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0)

3500 units of improved racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.
200 units of Gelidus.
250 units of Krystallos


I hope the lack of Dark Glitter in strong truesec belts is an oversight. Previous notes indicated 1000 blocks/beltspawn.
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-06-03 22:42:32 UTC
Kelmurdoch wrote:
Has anyone else read the patch notes with a raised eyebrow?
Quote:

The composition of these anomalies will be as follows:

Highsec

2500 units of standard racial ice.

Lowsec

3000 units of standard racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.

Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5)

3000 units of improved racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.
500 units of Dak Glitter.
200 units of Gelidus.

Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0)

3500 units of improved racial ice.
400 units of Glare Crust.
200 units of Gelidus.
250 units of Krystallos


I hope the lack of Dark Glitter in strong truesec belts is an oversight. Previous notes indicated 1000 blocks/beltspawn.



Highsec:
2500 units of standard racial ice.

Lowsec:
3000 units of standard racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust

Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5):
3000 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
500 units of Dark Glitter
200 units of Gelidus

Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0):
3500 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
1000 units of Dark Glitter
300 units of Gelidus
250 units of Krystallos

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2994788
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#183 - 2013-06-04 16:10:15 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
A max yield HULK can still have well over 20k ehp. A MAX dps Talos can only do 16,000 damage before CONCORD shows up. A MAX damage Catayst can do at best about 8,000 damage before CONCORD shows up.

Before the mining ship buff you could gank a max yield hulk with a single catayst, now you need 3-4 catalysts or 2 talos. Ganking miners costs much more than it used to.
a talos puts out over 1.5k dps, at ~20 seconds concord response time in 0.5 that's 30k of damage. that'll melt your 20k ehp hulk before concord is even there.

EFT warrior stats?

Looking at average DPS does not give you accurate numbers unless the time frame ends exactly when a volley is shot. A Talos does ~8000 damage per volley, they can get off at best two volleys before concord shows up. That is ~16000 damage. You will never get close to 30,000 damage.

The reason these are better than the Ganknado is that while a Ganknado can do ~14000 damage per volley, they do not get a second shot in before concord shows up.

This is Ganking 101 not EFT warrioring.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#184 - 2013-06-04 17:30:06 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Xavier Thorm wrote:
"Wormhole systems" are just normal solar systems which we only connect to via wormholes, and the idea of a solar system without any moons seems very strange to me. If this was going to be done, I'd want some kind of artificial explanation of why there are no moons, or at least why we can't use them.


The sleepers consumed them (and the planets) with giant mining machines in order to build their endless fleets.


And we can build these giant mining machines with sleeper materials ... when exactly ??? :D

Never, But ORE is working on new module technology based on remnants of this ancient sleeper mining technology that will eventually develop into capital class mining lasers. T3 modules that will be fit on T1 capital ships.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-06-05 10:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Karak Bol wrote:
Well, the Rorqual can surely compress the leftover ice in the 4 h downtime, can´t it?


Aside from the fact that you'd have the rorq stuck constantly compressing while the miners twiddle their thumbs for 4 hours; No. Rorq can keep up with 2 ice miners. Best quality nullsec ice fields have 5350 (or 5250?) Ice blocks. at 180 blocks per miner, per hour, and with 20 miners in a field (good field near a decent refinery), the field will be gone in under 2 hours. However, it will take that one rorqual, full tilt, about 18 hours to compress all the ice mined. Thus, just to keep up with the miners, if you were compressing during the 4 hour downtimes, nonstop, you'd not only have to be running something like 3 rorqs for those 20 miners, but you'd also have to refine a lot of your blocks for heavy water, and be stuck with lots of ozone and stront out in 0.0

Even with a small workband of 10 hulks, 1 rorq still can't keep up running full tilt through the 4hour breaks.
Ganja Beard
Beard Inc.
#186 - 2013-06-06 09:52:35 UTC
Quote:
"CCP Fozzie" wrote:
When Odyssey is released, the current static ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game, and replaced by a series of Ore Anomalies that will spawn and respawn only in systems that previously contained the aforementioned static ice belts. These belts will respawn in exactly the same system four hours after they are completed, to ensure that players from all time zones will be able to partake.


I have a very specific time schedule alotted for when i can log on and off every day. I am what you may call a casual gamer, but i still get to have 3 hours a day online. In the area of space where i "live" there are 5 such Ice Belt anomolies apparently which are within a 23 jump circular route i can take. I say apparently because since the update i haven't seen one. I understand that players form all "time zones" should be able to partake, but obviously not all "players" can.

Would it be too much to suggest maybe a timer in system to let you know when the next anomoly may appear so i could at least gauge when i should come back to try. Or maybe leave the anomoly in space, and have message updates on it, a bit like the wormhole anomoly information messages we get already.
wentrox
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2013-06-06 10:12:59 UTC
Ganja Beard wrote:


Would it be too much to suggest maybe a timer in system to let you know when the next anomoly may appear so i could at least gauge when i should come back to try. Or maybe leave the anomoly in space, and have message updates on it, a bit like the wormhole anomoly information messages we get already.

Yea, also sms and email notifiacation, but better direct call to my phone xD I realy dont like this changes. Bots is the problem, and now ccp double it.
Dave Stark
#188 - 2013-06-06 10:41:59 UTC
Ganja Beard wrote:
Quote:
"CCP Fozzie" wrote:
When Odyssey is released, the current static ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game, and replaced by a series of Ore Anomalies that will spawn and respawn only in systems that previously contained the aforementioned static ice belts. These belts will respawn in exactly the same system four hours after they are completed, to ensure that players from all time zones will be able to partake.


I have a very specific time schedule alotted for when i can log on and off every day. I am what you may call a casual gamer, but i still get to have 3 hours a day online. In the area of space where i "live" there are 5 such Ice Belt anomolies apparently which are within a 23 jump circular route i can take. I say apparently because since the update i haven't seen one. I understand that players form all "time zones" should be able to partake, but obviously not all "players" can.

Would it be too much to suggest maybe a timer in system to let you know when the next anomoly may appear so i could at least gauge when i should come back to try. Or maybe leave the anomoly in space, and have message updates on it, a bit like the wormhole anomoly information messages we get already.


take some of your game time and use garpa or dotlan and do some research. there's the same amount of belts in a 2 jumps in the forge.

alternatively, ice isn't the only thing you can mine in a barge. treat ice as what it is, a nice boost for miners when there's an anomaly up.
George Holden
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2013-06-06 10:46:32 UTC
Well some sort of timer like "new ice will form in approximately an hour" with lets say 30min +/- deviation? Sounds fair :>

As for the Rorqual "issue". Why don't you just get more Rorquals? You also assume that nullsec will suddenly set up large scale ice mining operations to feed the carebear POS in highsec. Who says that's gonna happen?
I can only speak for me and some of my corp mates but unless prices skyrocket that ice mining is more profitable than anything else remotely fun we will not export ice and only mine for our own needs.
Dave Stark
#190 - 2013-06-06 10:51:27 UTC
George Holden wrote:
Well some sort of timer like "new ice will form in approximately an hour" with lets say 30min +/- deviation? Sounds fair :>


some sort of timer like, getting to know the locals and making friends with them?
Ganja Beard
Beard Inc.
#191 - 2013-06-06 10:59:39 UTC
Quote:

Dave Stark Wrote:
take some of your game time and use garpa or dotlan and do some research. there's the same amount of belts in a 2 jumps in the forge.

alternatively, ice isn't the only thing you can mine in a barge. treat ice as what it is, a nice boost for miners when there's an anomaly up.

I hear what your saying Dave, but i was hoping to not have to explain why moving would be a bit of an imposition as it just starts to sound too much like whining. Lets just say i mined for myself so i could run a POS, i only ever mined enough to keep it running per month, as i dual boxed between watching my miner on one screen and playing with friends on the other screen. Moving location would entail a butt load of work for me on gaining rep in system again or if i actually had the cash spare (which i dont) paying someone to get rep up just so i can mount a POS in system.

I fully agree about researching where you live, its why i live where i do. I liked to have my one guy mine on one screen so i could watch his hold get full and warp him back to station and back, plus be able to join in with my mates on the other, but now i have to pay attention to both screens while i hunt down Anomolies to mine. A timer would just be more informative for me, so once in system i can take a quick look and then carry on.
Dave Stark
#192 - 2013-06-06 12:10:22 UTC
Ganja Beard wrote:
Quote:

Dave Stark Wrote:
take some of your game time and use garpa or dotlan and do some research. there's the same amount of belts in a 2 jumps in the forge.

alternatively, ice isn't the only thing you can mine in a barge. treat ice as what it is, a nice boost for miners when there's an anomaly up.

I hear what your saying Dave, but i was hoping to not have to explain why moving would be a bit of an imposition as it just starts to sound too much like whining. Lets just say i mined for myself so i could run a POS, i only ever mined enough to keep it running per month, as i dual boxed between watching my miner on one screen and playing with friends on the other screen. Moving location would entail a butt load of work for me on gaining rep in system again or if i actually had the cash spare (which i dont) paying someone to get rep up just so i can mount a POS in system.

I fully agree about researching where you live, its why i live where i do. I liked to have my one guy mine on one screen so i could watch his hold get full and warp him back to station and back, plus be able to join in with my mates on the other, but now i have to pay attention to both screens while i hunt down Anomolies to mine. A timer would just be more informative for me, so once in system i can take a quick look and then carry on.


sounds like a ****** situation but on the other hand, ore doesn't move. you could mine that, sell it, and buy ice products instead.
Eian Romola
The Crimson Kiss
#193 - 2013-06-06 12:11:51 UTC
I too would like an unlikely / likely / imminent on the anomaly or halve the ice content and have it spawn on a two hour timer. I don't get more than a couple of hours a night away from RL. I do like the changes, they just need some tweaking.
energypills
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-06-06 18:27:02 UTC
Quote:


This is stated to be a means of throttling the supply of highsec ice into the game, but is believed to be an anti-bot measure. The new system is making mining operations miserable for everyone in order to mildly inconvenience mining bots. Bots don't care about mining during off-hours, but real players with busy schedules will no longer be able to mine at all when they get home. In short, the 4hr respawn timer on ice belts is not a good idea.


This is so true. I can't mine anymore and I just finished a miner toon completely trained up with ice processing. It is my only miner. I sit there on the undock waiting to for my scanner to pick up a re-spawned ice belt. It is horrid. Then anytime I do find it spawn -- I see 25 Mackinaws (a botter) eating it all up in about 30 min I kid you not. I can't get a cycle finished.
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#195 - 2013-06-06 20:10:41 UTC
energypills wrote:
Quote:


This is stated to be a means of throttling the supply of highsec ice into the game, but is believed to be an anti-bot measure. The new system is making mining operations miserable for everyone in order to mildly inconvenience mining bots. Bots don't care about mining during off-hours, but real players with busy schedules will no longer be able to mine at all when they get home. In short, the 4hr respawn timer on ice belts is not a good idea.


This is so true. I can't mine anymore and I just finished a miner toon completely trained up with ice processing. It is my only miner. I sit there on the undock waiting to for my scanner to pick up a re-spawned ice belt. It is horrid. Then anytime I do find it spawn -- I see 25 Mackinaws (a botter) eating it all up in about 30 min I kid you not. I can't get a cycle finished.



You should let him bot your account, since he can apparently mine 200 ice block/hour.

I'm sorry, but i have no patience for drama.

I sell drones and drones accessories.
energypills
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2013-06-06 20:16:00 UTC
Markus Navarro wrote:
energypills wrote:
Quote:


This is stated to be a means of throttling the supply of highsec ice into the game, but is believed to be an anti-bot measure. The new system is making mining operations miserable for everyone in order to mildly inconvenience mining bots. Bots don't care about mining during off-hours, but real players with busy schedules will no longer be able to mine at all when they get home. In short, the 4hr respawn timer on ice belts is not a good idea.


This is so true. I can't mine anymore and I just finished a miner toon completely trained up with ice processing. It is my only miner. I sit there on the undock waiting to for my scanner to pick up a re-spawned ice belt. It is horrid. Then anytime I do find it spawn -- I see 25 Mackinaws (a botter) eating it all up in about 30 min I kid you not. I can't get a cycle finished.



You should let him bot your account, since he can apparently mine 200 ice block/hour.

I'm sorry, but i have no patience for drama.



I do want you to feel sorry for me. I just thought I'd throw that in...
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#197 - 2013-06-06 20:24:59 UTC
energypills wrote:
Markus Navarro wrote:
energypills wrote:
Quote:


This is stated to be a means of throttling the supply of highsec ice into the game, but is believed to be an anti-bot measure. The new system is making mining operations miserable for everyone in order to mildly inconvenience mining bots. Bots don't care about mining during off-hours, but real players with busy schedules will no longer be able to mine at all when they get home. In short, the 4hr respawn timer on ice belts is not a good idea.


This is so true. I can't mine anymore and I just finished a miner toon completely trained up with ice processing. It is my only miner. I sit there on the undock waiting to for my scanner to pick up a re-spawned ice belt. It is horrid. Then anytime I do find it spawn -- I see 25 Mackinaws (a botter) eating it all up in about 30 min I kid you not. I can't get a cycle finished.



You should let him bot your account, since he can apparently mine 200 ice block/hour.

I'm sorry, but i have no patience for drama.



I do want you to feel sorry for me. I just thought I'd throw that in...


Slip of the tongue ? I'll stop giving you attention, fed you enough.

I sell drones and drones accessories.
energypills
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2013-06-06 20:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: energypills
Markus Navarro wrote:
energypills wrote:
Markus Navarro wrote:
energypills wrote:
Quote:


This is stated to be a means of throttling the supply of highsec ice into the game, but is believed to be an anti-bot measure. The new system is making mining operations miserable for everyone in order to mildly inconvenience mining bots. Bots don't care about mining during off-hours, but real players with busy schedules will no longer be able to mine at all when they get home. In short, the 4hr respawn timer on ice belts is not a good idea.


This is so true. I can't mine anymore and I just finished a miner toon completely trained up with ice processing. It is my only miner. I sit there on the undock waiting to for my scanner to pick up a re-spawned ice belt. It is horrid. Then anytime I do find it spawn -- I see 25 Mackinaws (a botter) eating it all up in about 30 min I kid you not. I can't get a cycle finished.



You should let him bot your account, since he can apparently mine 200 ice block/hour.

I'm sorry, but i have no patience for drama.



I do want you to feel sorry for me. I just thought I'd throw that in...


Slip of the tongue ? I'll stop giving you attention, fed you enough.


Ok.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#199 - 2013-06-06 21:30:50 UTC
energypills wrote:
25 Mackinaws (a botter)


Please do not confuse multiboxing with botting.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2013-06-07 01:49:17 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
energypills wrote:
25 Mackinaws (a botter)


Please do not confuse multiboxing with botting.



in this case, either one has the same unfair advantage as they are removing the ice before anyone else can get a chance at it. this is what happens when the sound bite is more important than the actual effects it has on the market.