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Hi Resolution Texture Pack - Show Your Support!!!

First post First post
Author
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3121 - 2015-03-21 00:01:34 UTC
So that's it people, we have our answer to the important question.


It takes 150+ pages of support to get something you want in Eve.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Brynhild Budlesdotter
Doomheim
#3122 - 2015-03-21 02:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Brynhild Budlesdotter
Anara Shaw wrote:
Less talk. More Action.

We have to wait until all the kinks are worked out on dynamic patching first.

You realize the launcher client is itself still being essentially tested... HR Textures could still be a year plus out.


I'm guessing this article must be bullshitting about us getting this the 24th.

-edit-

The Article also wrote:
if you're PC isn't up to scratch or your not keen on using ...


This is an annoyance.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3123 - 2015-03-21 03:16:47 UTC
Brynhild Budlesdotter wrote:


I'm guessing this article must be bullshitting about us getting this the 24th.

-edit-

The Article also wrote:
if you're PC isn't up to scratch or your not keen on using ...


This is an annoyance.


No, its a failure of the US public school system.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#3124 - 2015-03-22 11:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Freelancer117
It's comingCool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#3125 - 2015-03-22 23:00:14 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So that's it people, we have our answer to the important question.


It takes 150+ pages of support to get something you want in Eve.





Wasn't there a walking in stations thread that made 150+ pages?

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3126 - 2015-03-23 01:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Brynhild Budlesdotter wrote:

I'm guessing this article must be bullshitting about us getting this the 24th.


Under no condition will high-res textures be available on the 24th of March. CCP Seagull's presentation stated that we should see this in 2015, and work is already ongoing on making it happen.

I think it's important to manage your expectations about what this will do for your EVE experience.

We'll be able to double linear resolution of textures for ships that have been redesigned in the last few years, but many of the most popular ships simply don't have higher-resolution textures available at all.

Also, even for ships for which we can deliver a higher texture resolution, including the Tristan and Apocalypse which CCP Seagull showed in her presentation, the improvement is quite subtle, and it's very possible to zoom in close enough on the ship to see pixelation. In most cases, the effect of going from current textures to double-res textures is one that I'd characterize as modestly sharpening detail, and remember that it's doing so at a cost of 4x the download size for that ship's textures.

It is quite likely that we will never be able to deliver a solution that makes ships appear sharp and detailed at all zoom levels. Unlike many MMOs out there, which focus on human-sized characters in an environment that's suited to their scale, objects in EVE range from a meter wide to tens of kilometers wide, and those scale differences mean that no conceivable high-res texture would ever make large objects look sharp when zoomed in closely.

We're certainly discussing various possible approaches to enable much better looks at close-in zoom levels, but those ideas are a long way out at this point.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Elena Ranning
008Bezirk322sschornsteinfeg432ermeiste0191r
#3127 - 2015-03-23 01:45:26 UTC
what about hi-res textures for other objects other than ships? the universe the planets the stars the supernova the asteroids the explosions and particle effect....?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3128 - 2015-03-23 01:49:48 UTC
Elena Ranning wrote:
what about hi-res textures for other objects other than ships? the universe the planets the stars the supernova the asteroids the explosions and particle effect....?

Non-ship assets are definitely on the table for this. It all depends on what assets we have available. If a high-resolution map doesn't exist for a given asset, it will have to be redone and will come later.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Serene Repose
#3129 - 2015-03-23 03:46:31 UTC
Most games out there dither. Most players of those games think dithering is normal graphics.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3130 - 2015-03-23 04:38:31 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Most games out there dither. Most players of those games think dithering is normal graphics.


wouldn't surprise me that large objects like stations or capitals will end up with a similar treatment. Even movies use procedural detail generation for large objects.

(e.g i read somewhere that the big ships in SW episode 3 you see in the first 10mins of the movie had generated textures and even shapes on them)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3131 - 2015-03-23 10:04:05 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Even movies use procedural detail generation for large objects.

The problem is that doing this well is very processor-intensive. A film visual effects project can tolerate a 48-hour render. We have 17 milliseconds per frame.

We've investigated this type of thing, and will continue doing so, but the results have not yet been satisfactory.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Porucznik Borewicz
GreenSwarm
#3132 - 2015-03-23 10:11:49 UTC
Copy that.
ReKt-X
Doomheim
#3133 - 2015-03-24 13:12:44 UTC
So every current game in existence can somehow achieve HD textures yet eve cannot. Best get the art department painting!! Twisted
Sacu Shi
Ranger Industries
The Rogue Consortium
#3134 - 2015-03-24 13:35:24 UTC
If the ship skins were in the same resolution as the turrets (zoom in on the turrets and you will see what I mean), this would be AWESOME!!

The turrets on the ships are HUGELY more detailed than the ships themselves.

How come it is easy to do on turrets, but we are being told it is so much harder to do for ships / stations and other assets. I do not notice any pixelation even when zooming extreme using both mousebuttons to the turrets.

My main gripe is the lights on the ships look pixelated even at moderate zooming levels. If this was fixed it would go a hell of a long way towards making EVE look better.

So, if it can be done for turrets, it can be done for ships / stations, right?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3135 - 2015-03-24 13:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
ReKt-X wrote:
So every current game in existence can somehow achieve HD textures yet eve cannot. Best get the art department painting!! Twisted


EVE differs from most games out there that I'm aware of that have delivered improved texture resolution as an optional addition in one key respect: The physical scale of objects in EVE ranges from a meter or so (a corpse model, or a canister) to objects more than 100 kilometers wide. In EVE you can zoom in to fill the screen with one of those 1 meter canisters, or you can zoom back to see a 100 km wide structure.

Meanwhile, many other games are scaled to the human body, so for example in a game like WoW you'll rarely see buildings more than 10 stories high, and camera angles and distances are limited in relation to this.

This makes delivering high-quality textures a much more difficult problem to solve for EVE than for other games. When you zoom in on that 100km structure to fill the screen with the 1m can sitting in front of it, we'd need the equivalent of 100 million pixels across, or 10x10^16 pixels, to retain high-resolution detail in that structure. A compressed texture map that size would be something like 10,000 terabytes.

There are various possible technical solutions to this problem. One is to add detail procedurally below a certain scale. We've considered doing this but it's a challenge to do it in a way that looks natural.

Another is to use texture tiling, which can produce acceptable results in many cases, but would require a major redesign to our art authoring process and rebuilding every single asset to exacting standards in a totally different way from how they're built now. Texture tiling also presents serious visual issues when the viewing scale reaches certain multiples of the tile spacing, and good solutions to those problems are not trivial.

Such a project would likely take years to complete and stall progress on many new art assets and features we'll want to introduce in the meantime.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

marVLs
#3136 - 2015-03-24 16:31:03 UTC
Will we get nebulas in HD in first place? Or rather are there HD textures for them ?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3137 - 2015-03-24 16:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
marVLs wrote:
Will we get nebulas in HD in first place? Or rather are there HD textures for them ?

We do have raw nebula maps that are 2x the linear resolution (so 4x the size on disk) of what we're delivering. Delivering these higher-res nebulas should distinctly increase nebula sharpness on high-res displays, and should be a nice improvement.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3138 - 2015-03-24 18:11:36 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
marVLs wrote:
Will we get nebulas in HD in first place? Or rather are there HD textures for them ?

We do have raw nebula maps that are 2x the linear resolution (so 4x the size on disk) of what we're delivering. Delivering these higher-res nebulas should distinctly increase nebula sharpness on high-res displays, and should be a nice improvement.

Will it only give sharper textures, or will it actually increase the overall resolution / quality on the nebulaes so they can look better when you zoom in on them?

As it is now, you don't have to zoom much in on them before the nebulaes starts to look really bad.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3139 - 2015-03-24 22:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
NightmareX wrote:
Will it only give sharper textures, or will it actually increase the overall resolution / quality on the nebulaes so they can look better when you zoom in on them?

As it is now, you don't have to zoom much in on them before the nebulaes starts to look really bad.


See my post right before the one you quoted. If you're asking for infinite fractal detail in our nebulas, sorry, that's not in the plan right now.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3140 - 2015-03-25 00:01:54 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
There are various possible technical solutions to this problem....

i remember doing experiments with SVG instead of bitmaps. allowed arbitrary zoom lvls without detail loss as you would imagine. But its fairly limited what you can do with vector graphics if you compare it to bitmaps. Maybe for ship tech parts like windows only? Just to throw this idea in the room. (everything ran in the shader)

Since ships are non organic objects, texture tiling for the highest detail level might be an interesting solution. Many problems you usually face with texture synthesis don't occur there, since you pretty much expect repeating patters when you look at a tech part from close. (you don't see nuts and bolts of an airplane from far but if you sit on the wing you see them. and they repeat in patterns)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value